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-   -   Over heating (http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=105990)

Gearhead 02-28-2012 03:46 PM

Over heating
 
Okay, The radiator is fairly new, the thermostat and the water pump is also new, and still wants to get over normal temp, so I checked the fan clutch, and it's bad so I changed it, big improvement on the clutch, but it still wants to get over the normal temp Gage at higher RPM....I live in Texas, so the weather isn't bad rite now, maybe 65-70 degrees so the weather actually helps cool the motor..... I'm at a lost now and don't get :4-dontknow:

What about timing, does the timing have any affect on it? Only thing is, my truck cranks and runs great, until it gets a little to warm!!


2002 Dodge Ram 4.7L

Any ideas or suggestions, guys???

ramvan2500 02-28-2012 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead (Post 735969)
Okay, The radiator is fairly new, the thermostat and the water pump is also new, and still wants to get over normal temp, so I checked the fan clutch, and it's bad so I changed it, big improvement on the clutch, but it still wants to get over the normal temp Gage at higher RPM....I live in Texas, so the weather isn't bad rite now, maybe 65-70 degrees so the weather actually helps cool the motor..... I'm at a lost now and don't get :4-dontknow:

What about timing, does the timing have any affect on it? Only thing is, my truck cranks and runs great, until it gets a little to warm!!


2002 Dodge Ram 4.7L

Any ideas or suggestions, guys???

Timing will certainly have an effect on the engine temperature, this is why most people who put a hotter cam in their vehicle usually have a performance radiator and a lower temperatured thermostat. It's good to have an engine that heats up quick and runs warm, you get out of open loop and you burn the fuel more fully (hopefully without ping).

At a higher RPM you're going to notice the temperature gauge go up, mostly on older vehicles because the timing chain stretches a little and it has a small effect on timing which can possibly have a direct effect on the temperature, especially when the computer begins to do spark retarding at higher RPM's to bring up the torque a little.

Gearhead 03-19-2012 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramvan2500 (Post 736364)
Timing will certainly have an effect on the engine temperature, this is why most people who put a hotter cam in their vehicle usually have a performance radiator and a lower temperatured thermostat. It's good to have an engine that heats up quick and runs warm, you get out of open loop and you burn the fuel more fully (hopefully without ping).

At a higher RPM you're going to notice the temperature gauge go up, mostly on older vehicles because the timing chain stretches a little and it has a small effect on timing which can possibly have a direct effect on the temperature, especially when the computer begins to do spark retarding at higher RPM's to bring up the torque a little.


So does this mean that my truck should be running bad, like misfiring or not starting at all?? I honestly don't have any idea about timing, but I always thought if your timing was bad, your car wouldn't start!

And in referencing to the thermostat, you stay people go with a lower thermostat, most auto part stores have only one thermostat for your vehicle, just depending on preference of brand?!?!

GTyankee 03-19-2012 01:26 AM

In warm climates, you want a 180 degree thermostat, not a 190 degree
you also want a newer thermostat, one that if it goes bad, you want it to stick in the OPEN position, not the old style that stuck in the closed position

If your radiator hoses are more than 4 years old, chases are that they are collapsing or about to collapse, change your fan belt(s) at the same time

I am not a mechanic, but i do my own work on older vehicles
I am sure someone will disagree with my opinion
that is what makes these forums interesting

Gearhead 03-19-2012 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTyankee (Post 754137)
In warm climates, you want a 180 degree thermostat, not a 190 degree
you also want a newer thermostat, one that if it goes bad, you want it to stick in the OPEN position, not the old style that stuck in the closed position

If your radiator hoses are more than 4 years old, chases are that they are collapsing or about to collapse, change your fan belt(s) at the same time

I am not a mechanic, but i do my own work on older vehicles
I am sure someone will disagree with my opinion
that is what makes these forums interesting

I will take all the help I can get, so its much appreciated!!

I strongly believe the last time I put a t-stat in, it was a 190 degree! But, that's what the auto part store gave me, witch was autozone....lol So yeah I will definitely look into that!!! Now the hoses I don't know about, I bought the truck two years ago from an individual, I've never changed them. how can you tell if the hoses are crumbling? they look like normal, structure wise?!?!?

Do you think the heater core has anything to do with it? Because the (heater core isn't leaking, but it's not blowing warm, I get cool air at normal running temp!!

GTyankee 03-19-2012 03:16 AM

The best way that i know to check the radiator hose, without taking them off, is to squeeze them between your thumb & fingers in the curved part, if you feel a sort of crunching, that means the springs are rusted & not able to keep the hose from collapsing, this would cause rusting in the radiator itself & likely cause the thermostat to malfunction

the heater is a different matter, there could be several reasons for failure in the heating system.
First thing to check is the water flow
drive the truck, both hoses should be the same hot temperature, if they are not
don't pull the heater hoses off at the firewall, you can see that access to that area is sort of tightly restricted.
Pull the hose clamps off close to the water pump end of the hoses, try running water or air pressure through the hoses & heater, you may need to open the heater controls to get flow, i don't think that the fan has to be on.

If you seem to have a good flow, you likely have an issue with the different heater doors or vents, or possibly a little motor
Then it is time to go online & watch 3 videos on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAclL84Qq8E

Gearhead 03-19-2012 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTyankee (Post 754184)
The best way that i know to check the radiator hose, without taking them off, is to squeeze them between your thumb & fingers in the curved part, if you feel a sort of crunching, that means the springs are rusted & not able to keep the hose from collapsing, this would cause rusting in the radiator itself & likely cause the thermostat to malfunction

the heater is a different matter, there could be several reasons for failure in the heating system.
First thing to check is the water flow
drive the truck, both hoses should be the same hot temperature, if they are not
don't pull the heater hoses off at the firewall, you can see that access to that area is sort of tightly restricted.
Pull the hose clamps off close to the water pump end of the hoses, try running water or air pressure through the hoses & heater, you may need to open the heater controls to get flow, i don't think that the fan has to be on.

If you seem to have a good flow, you likely have an issue with the different heater doors or vents, or possibly a little motor
Then it is time to go online & watch 3 videos on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAclL84Qq8E


That's some great piece of information! But my question is, by the heater not working properly, will that cause overheating issues??

ramvan2500 03-19-2012 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead (Post 754126)
So does this mean that my truck should be running bad, like misfiring or not starting at all?? I honestly don't have any idea about timing, but I always thought if your timing was bad, your car wouldn't start!

And in referencing to the thermostat, you stay people go with a lower thermostat, most auto part stores have only one thermostat for your vehicle, just depending on preference of brand?!?!

Timing isn't an exact science, so it would depend on the cam, the ecm, and how you degreed the cam.

I use a autozone brand thermostat and it works well. If you're overheating then it can be air in the system which is the most common. In the worse case scenario the block is clogged which happens in vehicles that are old and neglected. Or you can just have a clogged radiator. The two most neglected systems that must be maintained is the the transmission and the cooling system. The cooling system usually doesn't last long especially when you're dealing with weak grounds or an aluminum radiator.

With the cooling system you have so many variables that contribute to cooling failures. It's not simply put antifreeze and water in then that's it, you have to change it out every 2 years for conventional and 4 years for that yellow or orange stuff. But what variables their really are to worry about is the pH of the mixture, the concentration of the mixture, and the amount of current present in the radiator, if you have an aluminum radiator for example and you have a mixture with a low pH then you have a very caustic solution that will eat the radiator from the inside out. Now if you have a solution that has a high current then the cooling system can fall victim to galvanic corrosion basically electrolysis, where one metal will attack a weaker metal.

I always replace the coolant and flush every 2 years regardless of the coolant type, I use conventional because it's cheap and it works. I also use distilled water in the mixture, I usually have more alcohol then water but I won't have to high or low a mixture. Generally I try to maintain 60/40, 70/30 is my max mix.

I do periodic pH checks and voltage checks as well.

I have to be very cautious because my cooling system has many mixed meterials, iron block and heads, aluminum radiator, copper heater core. So on so forth so it's prudent that I make sure that the cooling system doesn't fall victim to electrolysis.

ramvan2500 03-19-2012 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead (Post 754262)
That's some great piece of information! But my question is, by the heater not working properly, will that cause overheating issues??

No, if the heater is broke it shouldn't cause an overheat.

Bikenut 03-19-2012 06:06 PM

Rep points for GTYankee :)


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