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-   -   No Ethanol VS Ethanol 10% Gas (http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=129255)

DiverDanRamMan 12-28-2012 10:09 AM

No Ethanol VS Ethanol 10% Gas
 
For Several months I have been using only 93 No Ethanol gas in my Lincoln Navigator and started using the same gas on my new Ram R/T from the first day I got it. I really beleive the No Ethanol gas gives me much better performance and better fuel ecconomy in both vehicles. The only bad about using No Ethanol gas in my area is: There are only two locations to get the 93 octane No Ethanol gas, and they charge about $.40 - $.50 per gallon more than the ethonal 10% gas.

Is anyone else having this same problem? And, has anyone else compared the two fuels?

I don't understand why No Ethanol gas cost so much more than the Ethanol gas.

CdnoilRAM 12-28-2012 10:50 AM

In natural aspirated applications, a non-ethanol gas burns more efficiently because it has a faster burn wave and ethanol requires a higher ignition temperature to burn, so it really is a later second burn wave in the chamber. Also, ethanol has a lower BTU rating compared to regular gasoline, which means it requires more ethanol to create the same amount of power as regular gasoline.

That said, since your injectors are factory scaled for regular gasoline you'll see a decrease in mileage because you're replacing 10-15% of the regular fuel with a slower and less volatile fuel, so you won't make the same power per combustion cycle.

If you run forced injection, scale injectors, or tune specifically for ethanol, then you can advance timing a lot more compared to regular gasoline because of the slower burn wave, which means less potential for detonation/pinging.

snrusnak 12-28-2012 11:01 AM

Not only the power increase with no ethanol, but ethanol destroys fuel systems as well(rubber parts). I was using 91 ethanol free fuel for a while but there is only one place to get it and it's not on my way, it's more expensive than 10% ethanol 93 blend, and was just a PITA so I gave up trying.

DiverDanRamMan 12-28-2012 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CdnoilRAM (Post 969365)
In natural aspirated applications, a non-ethanol gas burns more efficiently because it has a faster burn wave and ethanol requires a higher ignition temperature to burn, so it really is a later second burn wave in the chamber. Also, ethanol has a lower BTU rating compared to regular gasoline, which means it requires more ethanol to create the same amount of power as regular gasoline.

That said, since your injectors are factory scaled for regular gasoline you'll see a decrease in mileage because you're replacing 10-15% of the regular fuel with a slower and less volatile fuel, so you won't make the same power per combustion cycle.

If you run forced injection, scale injectors, or tune specifically for ethanol, then you can advance timing a lot more compared to regular gasoline because of the slower burn wave, which means less potential for detonation/pinging.

Thanks for the information. I do have a Superchip tuner for my Lincoln and I have it tuned for 93 octane performance mode, but I do not know of any way to tune for Non Ethonal vs Ethonal 10%. I think the onboard computer does this automatically because when I first changed over to 93 octane non ethonal, I could smell gas when I first started the engine, but now it has corrrected it's self and I don't smell the gas any more.

For my 2012 Ram R/T Hemi, I have a D/S Trinity tuner on order and will tune it for 93 octane performance also. I never noticed any fumes from the Hemi, maybe it computes faster than the Lincoln. I get about 18 mpg average (town/Highway) with my 2011 Lincoln Navigator 5.4L and my Ram R/T 5.7L. I think this is pretty good for both vehicles. If you really put your foot in them, they both get less MPG.

Chris b 12-28-2012 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiverDanRamMan (Post 969409)
Thanks for the information. I do have a Superchip tuner for my Lincoln and I have it tuned for 93 octane performance mode, but I do not know of any way to tune for Non Ethonal vs Ethonal 10%. I think the onboard computer does this automatically because when I first changed over to 93 octane non ethonal, I could smell gas when I first started the engine, but now it has corrrected it's self and I don't smell the gas any more.

For my 2012 Ram R/T Hemi, I have a D/S Trinity tuner on order and will tune it for 93 octane performance also. I never noticed any fumes from the Hemi, maybe it computes faster than the Lincoln. I get about 18 mpg average (town/Highway) with my 2011 Lincoln Navigator 5.4L and my Ram R/T 5.7L. I think this is pretty good for both vehicles. If you really put your foot in them, they both get less MPG.

just a word to the wise. if your running 93gas with 10%Ethonal I would run the 91tune just to be on the safe side with less knocking and pinging

MF2000 12-29-2012 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiverDanRamMan (Post 969347)
And, has anyone else compared the two fuels?

I have tested both fuels, in fact my thread is nearly identical in the description. I saw a noticeable difference and again after my tune.

http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=102343

GTyankee 12-30-2012 12:10 AM

I don't even look at my MPG during the late fall to late spring seasons
damn winter blend gasoline sucks for mileage

CdnoilRAM 12-30-2012 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris b (Post 969612)
just a word to the wise. if your running 93gas with 10%Ethonal I would run the 91tune just to be on the safe side with less knocking and pinging

Actually, you are safer running ethanol than non-ethanol if you are worried about knocking and pinging because it has a slower burn wave. You won't make the same power, but you are less likely to have detonation issues with the advanced timing of the 93 octane tune if you run an ethanol blend.

ArmyofOne 12-30-2012 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snrusnak (Post 969372)
Not only the power increase with no ethanol, but ethanol destroys fuel systems as well(rubber parts). I was using 91 ethanol free fuel for a while but there is only one place to get it and it's not on my way, it's more expensive than 10% ethanol 93 blend, and was just a PITA so I gave up trying.

the fuel system degradation does not apply in your case bud, your truck is designed to runon 85% ethanol, so your fuel system is equipped to handle it.

snrusnak 12-30-2012 01:41 PM

Quote:

the fuel system degradation does not apply in your case bud, your truck is designed to runon 85% ethanol, so your fuel system is equipped to handle it.
Yeah I know my truck is flexfuel. But my wife's car, my bike, all my small engine equipment, etc are not. It REALLY tears apart the small engines. I have rebuilt the carb on my mower 2 times last year as it just eats away the gaskets/seals/orings.


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