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-   -   Wax over Wax vs Wax over Sealant (http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=134746)

Userj8670 02-26-2013 10:21 PM

Wax over Wax vs Wax over Sealant
 
Maybe a few of the pros will chime in here-

I have gathered that for a great shine on your vehicle a person needs to wash it and then slap on a layer of sealant, let it cure, then put a layer of 845 over it. I cant say I have tried this but I was just curious why not put a layer of 845 over it then do another layer of 845? I myself dont really see, and this is just my opinion, how layers really can make a car shine more than a single layer. In my mindset, during the buffing process, you would just be taking the previous layer off to a degree making it kinda pointless?? Hopefully one of the pro's can chime in here and straighten this out!


Also has anyone tried Meguiar's M26? How does it compare to #845 in terms of shine? I have gathered #845 is a forum favorite but I am looking for a helluva shine and just want to see what everyone says. By the looks of it I will be going with #845. Thanks in advance - just a newbie trying to gain knowledge :) :smileup:

Hermes1 02-27-2013 09:24 AM

I am not a pro but my understanding is you would not use both ie. wax over sealant. Rather if you do not want to invest the time to wax 3 or 4 times a year, sealant is the product to use because it generally lasts 6-12 months. I know that Meguiars makes very good products, but I am not familiar with the specific ones you mentioned.

Pull Ya 02-27-2013 10:55 AM

Everyone has their own favorite type of polish, sealant and/or wax. You are correct in that many people like 845 for the results they receive however there are jsut as many people who perfer something else. I use Wolfgang sealant 2.0 as a base and top it with 845. The sealant will last about 6 months whereas most waxes last about 60 days depending on how much you wash your truck, whether you park inside or outside and the enviorment you live in. Sealant gives you long lasting protection and gives you a great "shine", however the wax gives you more "depth" and "warmth" and just gives your truck a little extra "pop". There is a line of products, "Opti" that do a great job and last a long long time. I am not as familiar with them as Primo and Leadfootluke are, so I think they would have a lot better info than I do on those products.
Jay

Userj8670 02-27-2013 02:33 PM

I am again just looking for that show shine - barrett jackson style lol. If you click here http://www.autogeek.net/collinite-in...r-wax-845.html and scroll 1/4 way down u will see a beautifully detailed machine - thats the look i am going for

dodgert 02-27-2013 02:37 PM

how bout this shine

http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/a...7/DSC01358.jpg

Jayincali 02-27-2013 04:09 PM

You don't get that awesome shine by just washing and slapping a coat of wax or sealant on your finish. The car in the link you posted is kind of false advertising as they just didn't wash that car and then slap some 845 on it. They probably spent 4-5 hours on that finish and went thru 5 machine pads and 4 different types of product. In a nut shell without getting in to crazy detail, here are a few steps to achieve the shine you are after. Just because you use wax doesn't mean you are going to have a Barrett Jackson shine, those types of finishes you see have had 10 hour’s worth of work to get there, not a 10 minute wash and 20 minute wax job. Primary job of wax is to protect, period. Wax and sealant will enhance the gloss/shine and depth but will protect first and foremost. When you see a finish that has depth that you could fall into with the shine/gloss to back it up, is mostly achieved through polishing. Most people totally skip right over this step as you did. Anyway here is a real quick rundown.

--Wash (use dawn if you have some, it makes it easier)
--Clay bar
--Wash again
--You should use a 2 bucket method, one with plain water to rise your dirty mitt, the other with car wash soap.
--Now you have a clean slate to start working with and will start with one of the most important steps you missed as most people do. Polishing. Most people think you only need to polish to remove heavy swirls or oxidation. Wrong. If you have very very minor swirling I wouldn't use a cutting polish or pad as the finish on these trucks are super thin and wouldn't warrant cutting a layer down just to remove such minor marring. I would use a finessing pad and a non-cutting polish to bring the depth and shine out of the finish.
--if you used a non-cutting polish then you can move on, if you used a medium cut/heavy cut depending on your finish, you may need to knock it down one more step with a fine cut polish and polish pad, or non-cut polish with polish pad, depending on the marring left behind from the previous step. Again just a quick run down here.
--Next you can pick the sealant of your choice, I do love my #845 and I will pick that bottle up.
--Then throw a wax topper on to add extra protection for your sealant as well as kicks it up a notch in the gloss/shine dept as well.

Again I could write a 5000 word essay on the subject, but this was a quick run-down. Obviously there would be more polishing/finessing steps depending on finish, pads, and product used.

Couple examples
Before
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/214130.jpg

After
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/214135.jpg

Before
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/220765.jpg

After
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/220768.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/220770.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/220774.jpg

Jayincali 02-27-2013 04:26 PM

Oh yea how about mine :)

Old truck
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...TruckAfter.jpg

New Truck

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...CDB032DEF1.jpg

Userj8670 02-27-2013 06:55 PM

Jayincali - Thanks for that write up - def alot of help and please feel free to elaborate should you think of anything more! Now you mentioned polishing - what do you use for a polish ? The only polishes that come to my mind are Astro Shield and Liquid Glass. I know alot of people use a buffer for their vehicles but I am not the most knowledgable about them in terms of use. I have a Milwaukee one (90 degree) and its so damn heavy. Also the last time i used it , it left the sealant in tiny hardend dots all over the paint. I am sure it was user error but I will be most likely doing this by hand.

Edit* I just seen you called the #845 a sealant - what do you use for a wax then? As far as I knew #845 was a wax?? Not calling you wrong or anything, just trying to understand this stuff :)

Hermes1 02-27-2013 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayincali (Post 1024514)
You don't get that awesome shine by just washing and slapping a coat of wax or sealant on your finish. The car in the link you posted is kind of false advertising as they just didn't wash that car and then slap some 845 on it. They probably spent 4-5 hours on that finish and went thru 5 machine pads and 4 different types of product. In a nut shell without getting in to crazy detail, here are a few steps to achieve the shine you are after. Just because you use wax doesn't mean you are going to have a Barrett Jackson shine, those types of finishes you see have had 10 hourís worth of work to get there, not a 10 minute wash and 20 minute wax job. Primary job of wax is to protect, period. Wax and sealant will enhance the gloss/shine and depth but will protect first and foremost. When you see a finish that has depth that you could fall into with the shine/gloss to back it up, is mostly achieved through polishing. Most people totally skip right over this step as you did. Anyway here is a real quick rundown.

--Wash (use dawn if you have some, it makes it easier)
--Clay bar
--Wash again
--You should use a 2 bucket method, one with plain water to rise your dirty mitt, the other with car wash soap.
--Now you have a clean slate to start working with and will start with one of the most important steps you missed as most people do. Polishing. Most people think you only need to polish to remove heavy swirls or oxidation. Wrong. If you have very very minor swirling I wouldn't use a cutting polish or pad as the finish on these trucks are super thin and wouldn't warrant cutting a layer down just to remove such minor marring. I would use a finessing pad and a non-cutting polish to bring the depth and shine out of the finish.
--if you used a non-cutting polish then you can move on, if you used a medium cut/heavy cut depending on your finish, you may need to knock it down one more step with a fine cut polish and polish pad, or non-cut polish with polish pad, depending on the marring left behind from the previous step. Again just a quick run down here.
--Next you can pick the sealant of your choice, I do love my #845 and I will pick that bottle up.
--Then throw a wax topper on to add extra protection for your sealant as well as kicks it up a notch in the gloss/shine dept as well.

Again I could write a 5000 word essay on the subject, but this was a quick run-down. Obviously there would be more polishing/finessing steps depending on finish, pads, and product used.

Couple examples
Before
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/214130.jpg

After
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/214135.jpg

Before
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/220765.jpg

After
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/220768.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/220770.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/220774.jpg

Awesome looking job.

primo spaghetti 02-27-2013 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermes1 (Post 1024188)
I am not a pro but my understanding is you would not use both ie. wax over sealant. Rather if you do not want to invest the time to wax 3 or 4 times a year, sealant is the product to use because it generally lasts 6-12 months. I know that Meguiars makes very good products, but I am not familiar with the specific ones you mentioned.

you can most definately top a sealant with a wax, but nto the other way around really. The wax will give a little more longevity to the sealant (as the wax will wear before the sealant), and some have reported that the wax topper gives a bit more of the carnuaba glow back to the sometimes candied appearance of a sealant.

I personally have always topped wolfgang paint sealant with poorboys liquid nattys blue...awseome stuff...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayincali (Post 1024514)
You don't get that awesome shine by just washing and slapping a coat of wax or sealant on your finish. The car in the link you posted is kind of false advertising as they just didn't wash that car and then slap some 845 on it. They probably spent 4-5 hours on that finish and went thru 5 machine pads and 4 different types of product. In a nut shell without getting in to crazy detail, here are a few steps to achieve the shine you are after. Just because you use wax doesn't mean you are going to have a Barrett Jackson shine, those types of finishes you see have had 10 hour’s worth of work to get there, not a 10 minute wash and 20 minute wax job. Primary job of wax is to protect, period. Wax and sealant will enhance the gloss/shine and depth but will protect first and foremost. When you see a finish that has depth that you could fall into with the shine/gloss to back it up, is mostly achieved through polishing. Most people totally skip right over this step as you did. Anyway here is a real quick rundown.

--Wash (use dawn if you have some, it makes it easier)
--Clay bar
--Wash again
--You should use a 2 bucket method, one with plain water to rise your dirty mitt, the other with car wash soap.
--Now you have a clean slate to start working with and will start with one of the most important steps you missed as most people do. Polishing. Most people think you only need to polish to remove heavy swirls or oxidation. Wrong. If you have very very minor swirling I wouldn't use a cutting polish or pad as the finish on these trucks are super thin and wouldn't warrant cutting a layer down just to remove such minor marring. I would use a finessing pad and a non-cutting polish to bring the depth and shine out of the finish.
--if you used a non-cutting polish then you can move on, if you used a medium cut/heavy cut depending on your finish, you may need to knock it down one more step with a fine cut polish and polish pad, or non-cut polish with polish pad, depending on the marring left behind from the previous step. Again just a quick run down here.
--Next you can pick the sealant of your choice, I do love my #845 and I will pick that bottle up.
--Then throw a wax topper on to add extra protection for your sealant as well as kicks it up a notch in the gloss/shine dept as well.

Again I could write a 5000 word essay on the subject, but this was a quick run-down. Obviously there would be more polishing/finessing steps depending on finish, pads, and product used.

Couple examples
Before
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/214130.jpg

After
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/214135.jpg

Before
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/220765.jpg

After
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/220768.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/220770.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ing/220774.jpg

great advice here...the wax or dealant is jhust going to protect the condition of the paint when it is applied...ill post a couple pics here too, but i have sepnt upwards of 24 hours in a multi step polishing process to make the paint perfect...your gloos and shne are going to come mostly from the fine finishing polish, but again, if there are still swirls or imperfections, that is where you will loose reflectivness and gloss. Again, i must stress that while the wax oe selaant brings about its own warmth or depth, it is really meant for protecting and preserving the paint finish below...that is why i would highly recommend after 24 hours of polishing, to consider something more permanet like Cquartz or Opti Coat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayincali (Post 1024530)

hehe...now here is a talneted detailer...he made a gen 2 ram look like a gen 4 with a porter cable!!! :SHOCKED: just kidding..nice work there.

here is a quick spring detail without polishing...this is a previous application of 2 coats of wolfgang topped with liquid natty's blue. for the clean up, i just washed and hit with duragloss awauawax...

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...l/af1ecd4e.jpg

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...l/8e3e860f.jpg

Now this is after about a 24 hour, multi correction process in order to prep for Opti Coat 2.0...all products used here were from the Optimum line...

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...ps43fd55c9.jpg

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...ps81a12c2f.jpg

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...ghetti/142.jpg

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...ghetti/141.jpg


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