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-   -   Lift and MPG's (http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=141472)

BigJohnson14 05-06-2013 05:35 PM

Lift and MPG's
 
Just bought the 2013 Dodge Ram Laramie Crew Cab 4x4. Looking for help on which suspension lift kit I should go with and what size tires you recomend. I'm thinking 6'' lift with 37's? Also have any of you had success with increases the MPG with any intake'exhaust combo's? I'm only getting about 13MPG :smiledown:

Driver72 05-06-2013 05:51 PM

I'm not a fan of 6" lifts unless you really need them.
Too me, they look to high.
I like 3-4" lifts. Same goes with tires. If they seem "monster" truck sized, but you
never go in deep mud, sand, etc, it seems ridiculous.
I'd go no larger than 35's on tires.

As for MPG, give your truck a thousand miles or so to break in.
Do you have the 3.92 gears? If so, that's part of the reason your mileage will be lower.
Clearly if you wanted the best MPG's the 3.21's are the way to go.

As for intake and exhaust combos increasing gas mileage.
Well I have never owned a Ram Hemi, but I've owned a lot of other cars and many of them I have modded with tunes, intakes, etc.

The idea of a CAI is to let more air into the engine.
With more air comes the need for more fuel.
Together they produce more power, and that extra power is not free, it comes at the expense of WORSE gas mileage, not better.

Exhaust is a different story.
I have never really done anything other than an axle back for better sound and a TINY bit better flow, but it's never been an item I'd consider to get better gas mileage from.

So you know, lifting your truck and putting bigger tires on it will only hurt your gas mileage too, especially at freeway speeds.
If MPG is your concern, you'd want to lower the truck a bit and go with lighter wheels and tires. But doubt that's what you want on a 4 x 4

brandonjansen 05-06-2013 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driver72 (Post 1090937)
I'm not a fan of 6" lifts unless you really need them.
Too me, they look to high.
I like 3-4" lifts. Same goes with tires. If they seem "monster" truck sized, but you
never go in deep mud, sand, etc, it seems ridiculous.
I'd go no larger than 35's on tires.

I'd definitely argue the other way on that. In no way will only a 6" lift ever look to high on a full size truck. If you start getting into Bilsteins and body lifts on top of that then yes you can get pretty high (some might argue too high).

If you're going to spend the money on a suspension lift you're going to want a 6" for sure. It's only $150 more than a 4" and you'll end up regretting it if you don't go for the full 6". Check out Rough Country's lift kits. They are a very good price for what you are getting. Contact either Jeremiah or Andrew and Discount Auto Performance

Andrew: fastNugly@discountautoperformance
Jeremiah: jhinkle1989@discountautoperformance

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driver72 (Post 1090937)
As for MPG, give your truck a thousand miles or so to break in.
Do you have the 3.92 gears? If so, that's part of the reason your mileage will be lower.
Clearly if you wanted the best MPG's the 3.21's are the way to go.

Definitely not true. The type of gearing you want for better fuel mileage depends on where you're driving and what other mods you are doing such as bigger tires. If you're staying with stock tires and doing mainly highway driving then yes you could argue that 3.21's will give you better fuel economy. If you are doing mainly city driving or adding bigger tires (or both) 3.92's are a WAY better option. 4.10's or 4.56's would be even better if they were an option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driver72 (Post 1090937)
As for intake and exhaust combos increasing gas mileage.
Well I have never owned a Ram Hemi, but I've owned a lot of other cars and many of them I have modded with tunes, intakes, etc.

The idea of a CAI is to let more air into the engine.
With more air comes the need for more fuel.
Together they produce more power, and that extra power is not free, it comes at the expense of WORSE gas mileage, not better.

Exhaust is a different story.
I have never really done anything other than an axle back for better sound and a TINY bit better flow, but it's never been an item I'd consider to get better gas mileage from.

Again, not entirely true. The idea of adding a CAI and exhaust is too let your engine breath better and not work as hard to suck the air in and push it out. The CAI's on these trucks from the factory aren't bad so by just changing that, no you aren't going to notice any real gains. If you go to something such as a Vararam then you'll notice some power and torque gains and maybe a little bit better fuel economy. Maybe 0.5 MPG

The exhaust on the other hand is very restrictive. By changing the muffler and Y-pipe it will flow a lot better and you might see a few gains. But again, no more than 1 MPG....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driver72 (Post 1090937)
So you know, lifting your truck and putting bigger tires on it will only hurt your gas mileage too, especially at freeway speeds.

Once again, not entirely true. Yes, obviously you are going to lose fuel economy but lifting and putting bigger wheels and tires on. But you'll see more of a drop in city driving than highway driving. Simply because it takes so much more fuel to get those big tires turning again once you've stopped. At least on the highway you're generally at a constant speed. So yes it takes more fuel to keep them turning and you have worse aerodynamics but at least you aren't constantly trying to accelerate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driver72 (Post 1090937)
If MPG is your concern, you'd want to lower the truck a bit and go with lighter wheels and tires. But doubt that's what you want on a 4 x 4

Exactly.... please don't lower your 4x4 :LOL:

The best way to gain back some MPG with a lift and bigger tires is 1) a tuner and 2) changing the gears. If you're going with 37" tires (even 35's) I'd go with 4.56 gears. They'll definitely help you out with fuel economy and make the truck feel closer to how it did with the stock wheels and tires.

BigJohnson14 05-06-2013 06:34 PM

So I don't know much about the gears and howe they affect the MPG's or performance so I am lost when it comes to that. I definitely want it big and think 6-8'' lift is where I want to be. Still not sure if 35's or 37's will look best. I know lifting it will decrease my MPG's that is why I am looking at ways to help off set it. Anyone using and programmers that work well?

gonefishin776 05-06-2013 06:45 PM

no tuners for the 2013 yet so you'll have to wait but when they do come out that'll be your best bet to help offset the lift and tires. the tires will have a much worse effect on mpg then the lift itself.

the "higher number" your gear ratio the better it'll be turning the big tires from a stop.

example: 3.92 are better than 3.55


I say go 6" and 37" tires. but 35s won't look terrible. that's what I'm gonna do. but I have a 3rd gen

brandonjansen 05-06-2013 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohnson14 (Post 1090965)
So I don't know much about the gears and howe they affect the MPG's or performance so I am lost when it comes to that. I definitely want it big and think 6-8'' lift is where I want to be. Still not sure if 35's or 37's will look best. I know lifting it will decrease my MPG's that is why I am looking at ways to help off set it. Anyone using and programmers that work well?

Essentially you want lower gears (higher number) to turn your tires easier. For example 3.21 gears will turn the crown gear (and the tires) 3.21 times for ever 1 turn of the pinion gear (connected to the driveshaft). 4.56 gears will turn the crown gear 4.56 times for every 1 turn of the pinion. Think of it like a bicycle. Using the small gear on the front ring (on the pedals) and the big gear on the wheel makes it a lot easier for you to pedal the bike up hills and such. Same kind of idea...

Sounds like the 6" RCX kit with Bilsteins at 2.1" and a 1" rear coil spacer would be a good set up for you to achieve that height (8.1" lift) :smileup:

With that kind of lift you're definitely going to want 37's too. 35's will look to small. With only a 6" kit you could get away with 35's but if you want to go 8" 37's for sure!

There aren't any tuners out for the 2013's yet. But both Diablosport and Bully Dog are the most popular tuners for the 4th gen Rams. When they release their tunes for the '13's I'd definitely recommend getting one. My Bully Dog increase my MPG about 2 MPG with the stock wheels and tires.

BigJohnson14 05-06-2013 08:01 PM

Awesome, thanks guys! That makes much more sense now. And I think you are right, the 35's would look too small. How hard is it to switch out the gears and how much are we talking price wise?

brandonjansen 05-06-2013 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohnson14 (Post 1091035)
Awesome, thanks guys! That makes much more sense now. And I think you are right, the 35's would look too small. How hard is it to switch out the gears and how much are we talking price wise?

Haha, this is where you're definitely not going to like the answer....

On the 2012's and up you can't change the gears in the front diff.... For some bonehead reason Dodge decided it was a good idea to weld them in. So you'll need to get a front diff from a 2011 in order to make the swap. I believe some machining is required as well to fit the bigger gears. You're probably looking at around $3600-ish for the gear swap alone (that's what I've heard at least). Then about $3000+ for wheels and tires and then $1700-ish for the RCX lift kit, Bilsteins and coil spacer. Install would probably be around $900 but if you're an okay mechanic you can install it yourself and then just get the alignment done afterwards ($100).

madhatr02 05-07-2013 05:39 AM

Been there done that. You just can't put Fuel Economy and a lifted truck together. Trucks are not designed for MPG, now take that box and lift it higher, put larger rolling stock on it, weight etc and it will be significantly worse especially if you want to go big. The minimal gains from CAI and Exhaust would never be noticeable on a lifted truck because the loss IS so noticeable. .5 MPG "might" be possible on a stock truck with CAI and Exhaust, but is completely unreal expectation on a lifted truck. Tuner will help with your speedo. The biggest thing would be gears but they will get you your torque back not MPG's.

If an awesome mall queen or show truck is what you are looking for lift it and go as high as you want Dodge's look badazz.

I am also talking from experience not just opinion. I have been down this road before. Look at the pics on here and in person if you can. If you are going to drive the truck a lot you would be surprised how awesome a 4" lift and 35's will look.

I just wanted to give some insight and clarify some things. Last thing I will ever do is tell someone how to spend their money, you earned it do what makes you happy and good luck.

blackmamba2012 05-07-2013 11:24 AM

i just lifted my 2012 1500 express 4 inches nitto trail grappler 35x12.5r20 with airintake and im getting 7 mpg city and 10 highway anyhelp to improve my mpg


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