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-   -   87 360 timing adjustment (http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=145762)

87flatbed350 06-22-2013 10:51 PM

87 360 timing adjustment
 
I'm trying to get my dad's d350 chasis truck w/flatbed running good. I have rebuilt the trash carb it has (carter AFB performance series), made sure all the vac lines are hooked up and in good condition, new fuel filter, and it even has an electric fuel pump to help out. I wanted to check the timing, but I can't see the timing marks on the balancer because the smog pump is in the way. I have no idea other than to try and set the timing by ear, but haven't tried this ever before, I've always used timing lights..

Anyone have any suggestions? This thing runs jam up until it warms up, and even then it only really acts up when you try pulling a hill...

Gen1dak 06-22-2013 11:05 PM

I usually just run and listen. Advance the ignition til it rattles while lugging, then dial the distributor back enough to stop the rattles. You may need to go a step richer on the metering rods now that all gas has alcohol. What exactly do you mean by "acts up"?

87flatbed350 06-22-2013 11:12 PM

Idles rough, dies out when you put it in gear, when you pull a hill it will sputter, hesitate and eventually die, we spent almost 2 hours the other night on a hill waiting for it to cool off so it would pull the rest of the hill without problems. After that happened I had my dad go and get an intake tube from the air filter to the fender air funnel to try and help the carb stay a little cooler, but that hasn't seemed to help as much as I was hoping.

On a side note, I know that this motor can have problems with vibration related to the torque converter, and was wondering if anyone has had the same problem and what the fix was?

Warlock III 06-23-2013 11:20 AM

I'd pull the air cleaner off and check the choke adjustment. Sounds like it may be running at half-choke which would cause a problem after it warms up.

Gen1dak 06-23-2013 02:40 PM

Yeah, sounds like a fuel issue. Ditto on the choke, but beyond that, it sounds like vapor lock. you referred to the "trash" carb as an AFB, that means it's not the original, so even rebuilt, there could be problems with it from sheer age if nothing else. The AFB is aluminum, and your average 360 isn't gonna generate enough heat to cause problems, but the fuel line near the engine could be an issue. This really shouldn't be an issue either since the fuel return line was introduced to alleviate this problem. Is the fuel return still plumbed in? If it is, a quick fix would be wrapping the line in a couple wraps with aluminum foil. If that solves it, you can work out re-routing for a permenant solution. Could be fuel delivery, maybe the pump is getting tired. Electric fuel pump to help out? Are you saying there's an electric pump in tandem with a mechanical pump or just an electric pump. I know the mid-80's was a crossover period for going to electrics, but not sure just when it was on every model before fuel injection. The electric pump could be possibly flooding the carb. Check fuel pressure.
Only vibration issue I've ever heard of related to the 360 is when using a zero-balance (318) converter. The lack of the external balance weight (needed by the 360) causes a vibration.

87flatbed350 06-23-2013 06:38 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gen1dak (Post 1132774)
Yeah, sounds like a fuel issue. Ditto on the choke, but beyond that, it sounds like vapor lock. you referred to the "trash" carb as an AFB, that means it's not the original, so even rebuilt, there could be problems with it from sheer age if nothing else. The AFB is aluminum, and your average 360 isn't gonna generate enough heat to cause problems, but the fuel line near the engine could be an issue. This really shouldn't be an issue either since the fuel return line was introduced to alleviate this problem. Is the fuel return still plumbed in? If it is, a quick fix would be wrapping the line in a couple wraps with aluminum foil. If that solves it, you can work out re-routing for a permenant solution. Could be fuel delivery, maybe the pump is getting tired. Electric fuel pump to help out? Are you saying there's an electric pump in tandem with a mechanical pump or just an electric pump. I know the mid-80's was a crossover period for going to electrics, but not sure just when it was on every model before fuel injection. The electric pump could be possibly flooding the carb. Check fuel pressure.
Only vibration issue I've ever heard of related to the 360 is when using a zero-balance (318) converter. The lack of the external balance weight (needed by the 360) causes a vibration.


All vacuum lines and return lines related to the fuel delivery and vapor system are hooked up and have helped with performance slightly. The afb has a manufacture date of 10/95. And I live in an area of arizona where the nominal summer temp is mid 90's, so things definitely get hot under that hood.. There is an electric fuel pump assisting the mechanical, under the assumption that the extended wheelbase could be a little more than the mechanical pump could handle (we didn't put the electric pump on it, it came that way from the school district my grandfather bought it from).

We manage mobile home rentals so this truck is essentially perfect for my dad as it has the room to carry all his tools, materials, air compressor, generator, etc. But we don't have the budget to be replacing the carb or anything huge like that, so I'm trying every simple, and essentially cost free ways to get this beast running better.

Oh and as far as the choke goes, it does stick, but after rebuilding the carb and fixing a few vacuum lines, it doesn't seem to be misbehaving, could it be terribly out of adjustment since it has an electric choke?

crazzywolfie 06-23-2013 06:52 PM

i have heard running a mechanical and electric fuel pump can cause issues. you pretty much have to choose one or the other and go with it.

did you possibly find any black stuff in the carb when you rebuilt it?

87flatbed350 06-23-2013 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazzywolfie (Post 1132916)
i have heard running a mechanical and electric fuel pump can cause issues. you pretty much have to choose one or the other and go with it.

did you possibly find any black stuff in the carb when you rebuilt it?

Nothing more than your average filth of a carburetor. I did however remove quite a bit of sand from the float chambers... Could have come from the fact that grass is a rarity here in Kingman.. I will have to get ahold of a cover plate to remove the mechanical pump. Maybe I'll also pick up an in line fuel pressure gauge

crazzywolfie 06-23-2013 07:13 PM

you could just try bypassing the mechanical one for now. just leave the mechanical one bolted to the block until you verified things are working better.

Gen1dak 06-23-2013 07:31 PM

I'd definitely make sure that fuel return line is hooked up (return back to the fuel tank). The mechanical pump will serve as an effective pressure limiter to the electric pump, so it's probably not flooding from excess volume, unless the fuel return line is capped and the fuel has nowhere to go. Possible the idle speed screw bleeds could be fouled. Start at a high idle. There are 2 screws on the front lower section of the carb. Gently flush them down, then unscrew 1.5 complete turns. Start up, get up a high idle around 1500rpm, then take one screw and slowly screw in 1/2 turn. Engine rpm should vary slightly. Then return to original spot. Now unscrew another 1/2 turn, meaning 2 total turns. Better or worse? Leave it where it's best and repeat with the other screw. What you are looking for is where rpm will rise to highest point in response to adjustment. If one or both are bad, you can screw in or out and it'll basically make no difference. One might work, and the other is like being a dumb post, totally useless. If that happens, you have a problem. Could be internal damage, or possibly just crud. If you see improvement, take a test drive on the new settings. I'm thinking you do have a fuel delivery issue. The electric could be failing and needs time to cool off as you indicated earlier. The tandem pump thing was used, usually to help maintain good fuel supply (and combat vapor locking fuel lines), not that it was needed with a healthy factory system. Sounds like they were having issues when they added that. Hate to say it but unless you can verify adequate fuel supply, I'd scrag both pumps for new ones, mechanical first, then electric if needed. I would test a new mechanical with the electric removed and the line spliced, otherwise the possibly dead electric could restrict flow. I'm in South Mississippi. We know hot weather too. Only time I ever experience vapor lock was when I had a temporary 383 in my first car ('69 Charger). It came with a 318 which was being rebuilt, but I needed the car so a well-worn 383 went in. The extra heat from the exhausts was an issue. A little aluminum foil around all the rubber line solved it (no return lines on cars that far back). It'd cut out and I'd have to wait for it to cool off to continue on. Also, once the 318 was back in, it eventually got topped with an Edelbrock 750 AFB. The aluminum body rejects heat several times quicker than steel. Fuel percolation was never an issue. Not to say it can't happen, just sayingit's much more likely a hot spot on a fuel line.


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