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-   -   Towing question....... (http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=147463)

Detroit3000 07-13-2013 09:44 PM

Towing question.......
 
Haven't been on in a long time but I have a towing question for the masses..

Here we go, I have a 2008 bighorn QC 20" wheels with 3.92

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/n...44F3CE25E1.jpg

And according to the sticker I can have 1288lbs of cargo. Now my weights are estimates but pretty close

Fiberglass topper. 200lbs
Me/wife/son. 450lbs
Nerf bars/bull bar. 100lbs


So right off the bat I have 750lbs of cargo not including all the crap under the back seat, leaving me 538lbs to put in the bed and tongue weight of the trailer.

My 4000lb camper (wet weight) has a 500lb tongue weight ( this is aprox. Going with the tongue weight being 12% of the trailer weight which is the norm for a camper)

Leaving me 38lbs to put in the bed of the truck. These are all payload/cargo numbers and should be the same on all trucks like mine and not matter if the truck is a 4.7 or 5.7

My 4.7 is rated to tow 5000lbs which with an empty bed I can see the numbers working, but the 5.7 has almost double the tow rating. How can a 5.7 really tow more? Wouldn't it be limited to the payload/tounge weight the same as my truck?

I seen a lot of 3rd gen hemi bighorns towing 7000lbs+ travel trailers with loaded beds full of crap over the holiday weekend. Am I missing something? Do the hemis have more payload or are there's guys way overloading there trucks?

Gantman 07-13-2013 09:51 PM

I would have to say yes on the overloading point with those truck owners you saw on the road.

Hermes1 07-14-2013 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gantman (Post 1149516)
I would have to say yes on the overloading point with those truck owners you saw on the road.


+1. As far as your calculations, the driver weight at or under 150 pounds does not factor into the equation.

Outdoorsman2012 07-14-2013 06:15 PM

You are 100% correct. The tow ratings are for a driver only... The only thing I can imput to help maybe is that if you have a wdh it also throws some of the tongue weight to the tt. My tongue weight is 900lbs but once wdh is hooked up only 740lbs is on the tv the other 160lbs was transfered to the tt.

Detroit3000 07-14-2013 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman2012 (Post 1150042)
You are 100% correct. The tow ratings are for a driver only... The only thing I can imput to help maybe is that if you have a wdh it also throws some of the tongue weight to the tt. My tongue weight is 900lbs but once wdh is hooked up only 740lbs is on the tv the other 160lbs was transfered to the tt.


I was always under the assumption that the WDH transfers some of the weight up to the front axle not back to the TT, meaning your tounge weight doesn't change just that your putting less weight on the rear axle and transferring the rest onto the front axle, I going to have to research the WDH a little more now.......

MrPiper 07-14-2013 08:38 PM

1.) WDH Distributes weight more evenly across the rear and front axles of the tow vehicle and should not affect the tongue weight very much at all. You may see a different weight if you are on a scale weighing only the rear axle of the tow vehicle because more weight has moved to the front axle which gives better stability while driving. Think of what happens with too much tongue weight and the rear sagging. The front wheels become lighter and thus more prone to not holding the road / getting loose on you. If you weighed the tow vehicle, BOTH axles while the TT is attached with WDH in place, the total vehicle weight should be the same as without the WDH except that the WDH itself actually adds a few pounds to the hitch weight as well.

2.) 4.7 / 5.7 tow rating is less about the motor and more about the suspension, gear etc...
A 1500 Bighorn 2WD 2012 has a payload of about 1600 lbs. (+150 for the driver)
With a 3.92 tow is about 10,080 lbs.
With a 3.55 tow is about 8,500 lbs.
With a 3.21 tow is about 6,000 lbs.

per Dodge lit for that year.

What you see going down the road may or may not be overloaded based on the specs involved. You really never know unless you actually go to the truck scales and weigh your rig alone, attached to the truck, and just the back axle of the truck.

3.) You didn't ask, but just in case, the answer is sadly, no. Adding air bags like the Airlift 1,000 or the high end TLC does not add to the payload rating of the truck. Other factors such as breaking ability and transmission fill out the tow capacity specs. It's not just about the springs and suspension components.

Hope that helps and of course, do the research yourself. Don't just take the word of someone on the internet:LOL:

mb power wagon 07-16-2013 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPiper (Post 1150122)
1.) WDH Distributes weight more evenly across the rear and front axles of the tow vehicle and should not affect the tongue weight very much at all. You may see a different weight if you are on a scale weighing only the rear axle of the tow vehicle because more weight has moved to the front axle which gives better stability while driving. Think of what happens with too much tongue weight and the rear sagging. The front wheels become lighter and thus more prone to not holding the road / getting loose on you. If you weighed the tow vehicle, BOTH axles while the TT is attached with WDH in place, the total vehicle weight should be the same as without the WDH except that the WDH itself actually adds a few pounds to the hitch weight as well.

2.) 4.7 / 5.7 tow rating is less about the motor and more about the suspension, gear etc...
A 1500 Bighorn 2WD 2012 has a payload of about 1600 lbs. (+150 for the driver)
With a 3.92 tow is about 10,080 lbs.
With a 3.55 tow is about 8,500 lbs.
With a 3.21 tow is about 6,000 lbs.

per Dodge lit for that year.

What you see going down the road may or may not be overloaded based on the specs involved. You really never know unless you actually go to the truck scales and weigh your rig alone, attached to the truck, and just the back axle of the truck.

3.) You didn't ask, but just in case, the answer is sadly, no. Adding air bags like the Airlift 1,000 or the high end TLC does not add to the payload rating of the truck. Other factors such as breaking ability and transmission fill out the tow capacity specs. It's not just about the springs and suspension components.

Hope that helps and of course, do the research yourself. Don't just take the word of someone on the internet:LOL:

rep points added for perfect towing information!!! :repplus:
that being said the only way to increase towing capacity is to go from a 1500 to a 2500 or 3500. all the guys you see towing a big camper with the box full of other gear and the kids bikes.lol are probably overloaded. but the 5.7 is capable of more towing than the 4.7 but the 5.7 will do it easier and more than likely use less fuel doing the same job.

Outdoorsman2012 07-16-2013 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detroit3000 (Post 1150109)
I was always under the assumption that the WDH transfers some of the weight up to the front axle not back to the TT, meaning your tounge weight doesn't change just that your putting less weight on the rear axle and transferring the rest onto the front axle, I going to have to research the WDH a little more now.......

When I get home I will post my exact numbers for all to see which was done on a certified cat scale for tractor trailers with three different scales for weighing each axle. With these certified scales mean is that if they say your weight is good as in your not over weight but you get a dot check point and get weighed they will pay the ticket or fight in on your behalf. You usually see these scales along major interstates and that's where I weighed.

A wdh transfers weight to both the front axle of the tv as well as the tt axles. more weight will almost always be transfered to the front axles of tv than to the tt. My wdh transfers 400 of the 460 lbs removed from the front axle and also transfers 160 lbs of tw to the tt.

Look on rv.net. guys will explain everything for you. I will go over my numbers tonight as they may help you understand.

GTyankee 07-16-2013 01:08 PM

http://www.dodge.com/towing/D/home.html

Outdoorsman2012 07-16-2013 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detroit3000 (Post 1150109)
I was always under the assumption that the WDH transfers some of the weight up to the front axle not back to the TT, meaning your tounge weight doesn't change just that your putting less weight on the rear axle and transferring the rest onto the front axle, I going to have to research the WDH a little more now.......

Alright here are the numbers from the CAT scale.

Truck only-2012 Ram Outdoorsman qc 4x4 3.92 axle 17' rims
Front Axle - 3460
Rear Axle - 2820
Gross Weight 6280

Truck and TT with no wdh hooked up

Front Axle - 3060
Rear Axle - 4120
GVW 7180

TT axles - 6520


Gross Weight 13700

Truck and TT with wdh hooked up

Front Axle - 3400
Rear Axle - 3640
GVW 7040

TT axles - 6640

Gross Weight 13680

From here you can see that there is a little discrepency in their numbers but you can get the overall pictures

340lbs of 400lbs of weight lost from front axle was replaced with WDH hitch. I've set it up with one more washer and it felt heavy so this is how i'm leaving it.

The truck lost 140lbs with weight distribution hooked up. The scales are off by 20lbs so either its 120 or 140 but either way at least 120lbs was transfered back to the tt axles which can also been seen in their TT axle increase.

TW can be determined by the increase it GVW from the truck empty to the truck with no wdh hooked up which is 900lbs.

Hopefully this can help you understand what i'm talking about.

So to help with your question i'm overweight technically. my truck with trailer weighs 7040 which is 340 more the gvwr. If i was to get a crew cab though the gvwr would be 6800lbs and what would mechanically for the truck? NOTHING. The GVWR is determined by the company to what they see being right. Just like the tow ratings. Ford with the ecoboost has a gvwr of 7650lbs and if you add the axle limits they are 7800lbs just like the ram.

This is how i see it. The cooling, engine and rear end was designed for the gcvwr which is 15500 for my truck and i'm about 2000lbs shy of that. The suspension was designed to hold axle ratings. Even though this suspension is softer i am still not on the bump stops at 900lbs tongue weight and i'm over axle ratings at the point. To me the gvwr should be more important when your empty because you have no additional help with braking. My trailer has a gvwr of 9500lbs but weighs 7420 with tongue weight. That means its brakes were designed to stop more weight and can help my tv brakes.

So it really comes down to the suspension as I see it. Yes i'm over but feel the truck is more than capable to hold this weight. If i was over axle ratings I would agree that this is not capable but i'm almost 300lbs from rear axle limit and 500lbs from front axle limit.

Others go strictly by the numbers and are willing to trust what the manufacture tells them (ie. ford having a much higher gvwr like 950lbs more but not having any stronger axle ratings). Every manufacture tests differently and its ultimately what they have to back up and warranty. I have seen what this truck can do and past trucks that my family has owned all being dodge and i'm very comfortable with this set up.

Please feel free to comment as this is all my opinion and not fact by any means.


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