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-   -   2013 Vs. 2014 Power Wagon (http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=152157)

Lil Black 4x4 Hemi 09-04-2013 01:20 AM

2013 Vs. 2014 Power Wagon
 
So I'm looking trading in my 08 1500 for a PW but am really up in the air. The 2013 is a known quantity with the suspension, motor, lockers, and axles. The '14 is supposed to have the 6.4 but also the coil suspension....so I'm really torn on this one.

There are no local Power Wagons available so that negotiating chip is out the window already. Also, do you guys think that dealers will "pull a Ford" and try to put a ridiculous mark up on the 6.4 PWs at the beginning?

Normally, for me, motor size trumps all...but I'm at a loss right now.

Thanks in advance!

Luke

mb power wagon 09-04-2013 10:43 AM

i'm sure they will try to have an initial markup on the first diesel pw. especially if they know you won't go somewhere else to buy it. as far as the coil suspension goes i have heard alot of guys like it. i haven't used one off road yet but i'm sure it will have benefits and drawbacks just like everything else. if your gonna get a pw i'd go to a dealer that has experience with them to buy it. sometimes the swaybar disconnect can be problematic and the locking diffs too. the diffs are electric lockers and if the magnet isn't set properly the diffs can be a pain to engage. imo go to a dealer with good knowledge on the pw's. even if you gotta drive a few hours to do it. you might even get a better deal in a city over a smaller town dealer.

battlerattle 09-04-2013 01:38 PM

Dont put to much emphasis on the 6.4. The numbers are only marginally better than the 5.7, the only big advantage is the larger displacement allows the use of MDS (can be a headache in itself).

5.7
383 hp
400 lb/ft

6.4
410 hp
429 lb/ft

It really looks like alot, but when you factor in where the numbers are available (RPM wise) and drivetrain losses its really less than a 10% improvement. You can get that plus more with tuning on a left over 2013 and still be chaeper than a 2014. As for the coil suspensions it is hit and miss. I liked them for overall ride quality, but not for towing/hauling (they feel wiggly to me).

fastNugly @ BP 09-04-2013 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battlerattle (Post 1192731)
Dont put to much emphasis on the 6.4. The numbers are only marginally better than the 5.7, the only big advantage is the larger displacement allows the use of MDS (can be a headache in itself).

5.7
383 hp
400 lb/ft

6.4
410 hp
429 lb/ft

It really looks like alot, but when you factor in where the numbers are available (RPM wise) and drivetrain losses its really less than a 10% improvement. You can get that plus more with tuning on a left over 2013 and still be chaeper than a 2014. As for the coil suspensions it is hit and miss. I liked them for overall ride quality, but not for towing/hauling (they feel wiggly to me).

This ^^^ is a pretty accurate assessment

BIGNTUF 09-05-2013 12:01 PM

I would agree with Battlerattle completely :smileup: :smileup: :smileup:

bstc00 09-05-2013 12:16 PM

I don't agree at all. If you look at the numbers on the 6.4 will get you going faster as it reaches max torque quicker then the 5.7

Trail Whale 09-05-2013 12:18 PM

I have a 2012 and was contemplating trading it in for a 2014 but, I've decided not too, the drawbacks to a 2014 outweigh the benefits, IMO.

If I were planning to keep it stock (which I am not but, if I were):
Benefit:
6.4L!!!!!!! (if there were no changes other than the 6.4L, I'd trade mine in!!!)

Drawbacks:
central axle disconnect on the front axle (introducing weakness to save 1mpg=dumb!!! This was actually my breaking point where I decided I will keep my 2012)
what we have seen to be rather finicky in other engines thus far MDS

Neutral:
Radius arm style front suspension
coil sprung rear suspension

^Just this list has two drawbacks vs one benefit.

Now since I want to modify mine with a lift for bigger tires and more ground clearance, we'll start a new list of Drawbacks:
radius arm style front suspension- only one available at present that I know of
coil sprung rear suspension- no lift kit available at present (though shouldn't be long before they become available since the design is VERY similar to 1500 rear)

BUT, I don't just want a "lift kit" I want a "suspension system" that gives me more travel and better ride quality than stock.
Front- as with a "lift kit" only one is available, the same one I listed as a "lift kit" (Pure Performance is the first, I think)

Front suspension MIGHT be a benefit since I think the new radius arms are longer than the old control arm setup BUT, we've yet to see if articulation is more or less in the new than in the old. Carli's top end kit is a radius arm type setup but it is VASTLY different from the stock radius arm setup the new trucks are getting. IMO the new front end is a wash, neither benefit nor drawback whether keeping it stock or modifying it.

Rear- none yet (that I know of), and when they do come out, you can bet they are going to cost an arm and a leg to get the kind of performance you can enjoy from the current leaves!

^(I am going with Carli parts (Deaver rear springs and King 2.5 shocks) and Thuren parts (shackles) and I anticipate a great ride, great articulation, and plenty of load capacity) To get the equivalent with a coil sprung rearend, you would have to go long arm (AFAIK it remains to be seen whether long arm mounts will work with the gas tank or not) and would have to revise the shock mounts as it would appear that a large body shock will have a hard time fitting into the new rearend design) My rear suspension is going to cost about $2200, expect to pay a LOT more to get similar performance out of the new rearend!!! Also, in addition to the expense, there's going to be a good sized waiting time as companies get trucks and start doing R&D! So, rear suspension is a drawback for modifying the truck. (Disclaimer: yes, I am SURE that someone will come out with a rear suspension redesign that will blow the leaf sprung rearend out of the water performance wise BUT, I am sure that the price tag will be INSANELY high on that system!!!)

^ so, now (for my intended use), the drawbacks outweigh the benefits 3 to 1!

An additional drawback for you in the case of a 2013 vs a 2014 is that the 2014 is going to cost more!

If you plan on keeping it stock, it's almost a wash but, it just depends on what's more important:
2014= bigger engine!
2013= stronger front axle, no MDS, cheaper price

If you plan on modifying it, I'd say 2013 wins!
2014= bigger engine!
2013= stronger front axle, no MDS, cheaper price, better rear suspension performance for less money (unless someone introduces a completely SICK rear suspension system for not much money which I highly doubt will happen)

It all comes down to how bad you want a 6.4L!!! I personally am just planning to swap in a 6.4L whenever my 5.7L craps out! (likely more than a decade from now, LOL!)

fastNugly @ BP 09-05-2013 12:26 PM

Trail Whale.....that is an in depth comparison and thanks for that

:rep:

battlerattle 09-05-2013 12:47 PM

I have a 2012 and was contemplating trading it in for a 2014 but, I've decided not too, the drawbacks to a 2014 outweigh the benefits, IMO.

If I were planning to keep it stock (which I am not but, if I were):
Benefit:
6.4L!!!!!!! (if there were no changes other than the 6.4L, I'd trade mine in!!!)
Disagree, the numbers are only marginally better. Even if the torque comes on lower than the 5.7 its nothing a $600 tuner cant match. Buying a new truck just for a marginally better engine isnt what I am after. When they announced the 6.4 we were all thinking SRT power levels, and its simply not there.

Drawbacks:
central axle disconnect on the front axle (introducing weakness to save 1mpg=dumb!!! This was actually my breaking point where I decided I will keep my 2012)
Agreed x10000000000

what we have seen to be rather finicky in other engines thus far MDS

MDS is nice when just cruising around, the second you put a trailer or a load in the vehicle it becomes a headache. I had a 1500 with it and hated it. There is a reason so many tuners are making "off" buttons for it.

Neutral:
Radius arm style front suspension
coil sprung rear suspension

Both of these actually have some rather large bennifits, but at what cost? The front I am not so worried about, it actually makes it easier and in a lot of ways cheaper to modify.

The rear coil springs are another story, coming from the jeep world I am very familiar with coil/link setups. I have built several weather modifying from stock or building from scratch. The big give and take is load/towing. You can make a vehicle to haul a heavy load and tow or a vehicle that flexes well, doing both is like trying to eat and poop out of the same hole, not very effective.



^Just this list has two drawbacks vs one benefit.

Now since I want to modify mine with a lift for bigger tires and more ground clearance, we'll start a new list of Drawbacks:
radius arm style front suspension- only one available at present that I know of (ford has been using it for years)
coil sprung rear suspension- no lift kit available at present (though shouldn't be long before they become available since the design is VERY similar to 1500 rear)

BUT, I don't just want a "lift kit" I want a "suspension system" that gives me more travel and better ride quality than stock.
Front- as with a "lift kit" only one is available, the same one I listed as a "lift kit" (Pure Performance is the first, I think)

Front suspension MIGHT be a benefit since I think the new radius arms are longer than the old control arm setup BUT, we've yet to see if articulation is more or less in the new than in the old. Carli's top end kit is a radius arm type setup but it is VASTLY different from the stock radius arm setup the new trucks are getting. IMO the new front end is a wash, neither benefit nor drawback whether keeping it stock or modifying it.

Rear- none yet (that I know of), and when they do come out, you can bet they are going to cost an arm and a leg to get the kind of performance you can enjoy from the current leaves!

^(I am going with Carli parts (Deaver rear springs and King 2.5 shocks) and Thuren parts (shackles) and I anticipate a great ride, great articulation, and plenty of load capacity) To get the equivalent with a coil sprung rearend, you would have to go long arm (AFAIK it remains to be seen whether long arm mounts will work with the gas tank or not) and would have to revise the shock mounts as it would appear that a large body shock will have a hard time fitting into the new rearend design) My rear suspension is going to cost about $2200, expect to pay a LOT more to get similar performance out of the new rearend!!! Also, in addition to the expense, there's going to be a good sized waiting time as companies get trucks and start doing R&D! So, rear suspension is a drawback for modifying the truck. (Disclaimer: yes, I am SURE that someone will come out with a rear suspension redesign that will blow the leaf sprung rearend out of the water performance wise BUT, I am sure that the price tag will be INSANELY high on that system!!!)

^ so, now (for my intended use), the drawbacks outweigh the benefits 3 to 1!


Good information, and I agree, but it is just your opinion and wants. Doesnt really apply to the OP.

An additional drawback for you in the case of a 2013 vs a 2014 is that the 2014 is going to cost more!

If you plan on keeping it stock, it's almost a wash but, it just depends on what's more important:
2014= bigger engine!
2013= stronger front axle, no MDS, cheaper price

If you plan on modifying it, I'd say 2013 wins!
2014= bigger engine!
2013= stronger front axle, no MDS, cheaper price, better rear suspension performance for less money (unless someone introduces a completely SICK rear suspension system for not much money which I highly doubt will happen)

It all comes down to how bad you want a 6.4L!!! I personally am just planning to swap in a 6.4L whenever my 5.7L craps out! (likely more than a decade from now, LOL!)

Trail Whale 09-05-2013 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastNugly @ BP (Post 1193598)
Trail Whale.....that is an in depth comparison and thanks for that

:rep:

Thanks fastNugly!

battle rattle, my responses are in orange (WOW! It is confusing to edit my responses since it all shows up in black and white so, if I screwed up anywhere, I apologize and ask forgiveness in advance!):

Quote:

Originally Posted by battlerattle (Post 1193614)
I have a 2012 and was contemplating trading it in for a 2014 but, I've decided not too, the drawbacks to a 2014 outweigh the benefits, IMO.

If I were planning to keep it stock (which I am not but, if I were):
Benefit:
6.4L!!!!!!! (if there were no changes other than the 6.4L, I'd trade mine in!!!)
Disagree, the numbers are only marginally better. Even if the torque comes on lower than the 5.7 its nothing a $600 tuner cant match. Buying a new truck just for a marginally better engine isnt what I am after. When they announced the 6.4 we were all thinking SRT power levels, and its simply not there.

I agree with you on being disappointed the numbers weren't higher but, regardless for some, the old adage applies- "there's no replacement for displacement!" kinda for me too- my wife's Yukon XL has a 6.2L so she gives me some grief because her (slightly) smaller vehicle has a bigger and more powerful engine than my truck! The 6.4L would give my truck the upper hand!!!

Drawbacks:
central axle disconnect on the front axle (introducing weakness to save 1mpg=dumb!!! This was actually my breaking point where I decided I will keep my 2012)
Agreed x10000000000

what we have seen to be rather finicky in other engines thus far MDS

MDS is nice when just cruising around, the second you put a trailer or a load in the vehicle it becomes a headache. I had a 1500 with it and hated it. There is a reason so many tuners are making "off" buttons for it.

That's handy, I didn't realize there were ones out there that can disable it!

Neutral:
Radius arm style front suspension
coil sprung rear suspension

Both of these actually have some rather large bennifits, but at what cost? The front I am not so worried about, it actually makes it easier and in a lot of ways cheaper to modify.

I'll somewhat agree on easier to modify, the longer arms will be more forgiving of a mild lift but for a big lift they'll still need lowered or lengthened and when trying for best articulation, they'll still need lengthened. They really remind me of a Fords, and a lot of big lift setups for Jeeps where they switch to radius arms but, longer.


The rear coil springs are another story, coming from the jeep world I am very familiar with coil/link setups. I have built several weather modifying from stock or building from scratch. The big give and take is load/towing. You can make a vehicle to haul a heavy load and tow or a vehicle that flexes well, doing both is like trying to eat and poop out of the same hole, not very effective.

LOL! Yeah, I agree with you there! I'd question the advantage of the rear coil springs for stock use on a 3/4 ton truck, but I just count it neutral for stock. I really don't think the rearend will be any advantage in modifying, and it certainly won't be as inexpensive to set up as the current leaves. A simple (but very similar) example- look at the expense of setting the frontend of a '13 up right vs what it costs to set the rearend up right!



^Just this list has two drawbacks vs one benefit.

Now since I want to modify mine with a lift for bigger tires and more ground clearance, we'll start a new list of Drawbacks:
radius arm style front suspension- only one available at present that I know of (ford has been using it for years)
coil sprung rear suspension- no lift kit available at present (though shouldn't be long before they become available since the design is VERY similar to 1500 rear)

BUT, I don't just want a "lift kit" I want a "suspension system" that gives me more travel and better ride quality than stock.
Front- as with a "lift kit" only one is available, the same one I listed as a "lift kit" (Pure Performance is the first, I think)

Front suspension MIGHT be a benefit since I think the new radius arms are longer than the old control arm setup BUT, we've yet to see if articulation is more or less in the new than in the old. Carli's top end kit is a radius arm type setup but it is VASTLY different from the stock radius arm setup the new trucks are getting. IMO the new front end is a wash, neither benefit nor drawback whether keeping it stock or modifying it.

Rear- none yet (that I know of), and when they do come out, you can bet they are going to cost an arm and a leg to get the kind of performance you can enjoy from the current leaves!

^(I am going with Carli parts (Deaver rear springs and King 2.5 shocks) and Thuren parts (shackles) and I anticipate a great ride, great articulation, and plenty of load capacity) To get the equivalent with a coil sprung rearend, you would have to go long arm (AFAIK it remains to be seen whether long arm mounts will work with the gas tank or not) and would have to revise the shock mounts as it would appear that a large body shock will have a hard time fitting into the new rearend design) My rear suspension is going to cost about $2200, expect to pay a LOT more to get similar performance out of the new rearend!!! Also, in addition to the expense, there's going to be a good sized waiting time as companies get trucks and start doing R&D! So, rear suspension is a drawback for modifying the truck. (Disclaimer: yes, I am SURE that someone will come out with a rear suspension redesign that will blow the leaf sprung rearend out of the water performance wise BUT, I am sure that the price tag will be INSANELY high on that system!!!)

^ so, now (for my intended use), the drawbacks outweigh the benefits 3 to 1!


Good information, and I agree, but it is just your opinion and wants. Doesnt really apply to the OP.

Thanks! OP never stated that he did or didn't want to stay stock or add a "lift kit" or "suspension system" but, I noticed in his sig that he has a leveling kit on his current truck so, I figured suspension mods probably aren't out of the question. Not knowing, I figured I'd give a run down of what I figured would be most of the suspension options- stock (no mods), a lift kit, or a performance suspension. (just happens that I am going for the third but, it does give me a detailed perspective on it)

I do realize now that I did leave out what might be the most applicable- a leveling kit, DOH!!! Really though, I think a leveling kit would pretty well be covered under the stock category, I don't reckon the new suspension design on the '14 would be good or bad for it. (though the front end may be slightly better than current given the '14's longer radius arms)

Oh, and yes, Fords have had radius arms for a VERY long time!!! But, none of their systems are the same as the Ram. I wasn't saying the suspension design was something new-I was just saying that new lift kits and suspension systems will need to be developed. (since nothing currently on the market will work. Though, now that I think about it, some of the ones that completely replace all the arms and mounts (and require torching off the stock mounts) MAY possibly work since the frame rails themselves seem to be still the same shape just with different arm mounting points (I say "seem to be" since I haven't had the chance to look closely enough to really compare thoroughly)) The only one I have seen thus far (for the radius arm frontend) that I know works is Pure Performance.


An additional drawback for you in the case of a 2013 vs a 2014 is that the 2014 is going to cost more!

If you plan on keeping it stock, it's almost a wash but, it just depends on what's more important:
2014= bigger engine!
2013= stronger front axle, no MDS, cheaper price

If you plan on modifying it, I'd say 2013 wins!
2014= bigger engine!
2013= stronger front axle, no MDS, cheaper price, better rear suspension performance for less money (unless someone introduces a completely SICK rear suspension system for not much money which I highly doubt will happen)

It all comes down to how bad you want a 6.4L!!! I personally am just planning to swap in a 6.4L whenever my 5.7L craps out! (likely more than a decade from now, LOL!)



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