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-   -   E15 voids Hemi Warranty???? (http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=152671)

mnguy55 09-10-2013 08:34 PM

E15 voids Hemi Warranty????
 
From what I have read E15 is coming on line and will become common soon. I knew the Hemi could use E85 but I assumed E15 would be OK but according to the owners manual it isn't. So what happens when they transition from E10 to E15? Park your Hemi? You can find some non ethanol premium in my area but it's not common and it's expensive.

E-85 Usage In Non-Flex Fuel Vehicles
Non-FFV vehicles are compatible with gasoline containing
10% ethanol (E10). Gasoline with higher ethanol
content may void the vehicle’s warranty.

CdnoilRAM 09-10-2013 10:37 PM

The hemi can not use E85, only the 4.7L which was flex fuel rated, so I'll assume you have a typo there.

The hemi, and a lot of other engines from all manufacturers, aren't designed to run the higher volumes of fuel required to feed an ethanol engine. The trucks at least run PTTF fuel lines that are stable with ethanol, but ethanol isn't a great thing in your engine to begin with.

Thankfully, Canada has sense and isn't giving subsidies to the farmers to grow non-edible foods to alleviate foreign fuel demand, we can supply our own quite readily. E85 doesn't exist north of the border (OK, it does, but it's almost impossible to find or I'd convert my supercharged truck to it ASAP).

dawoodsman 09-11-2013 12:07 AM

What he's talking about is not E-85, it's E-15. All gas for non-collector vehicles or small engines in MN is required to be mixed with 10 percent ethanol now. E-10. What he's talking about is a mandate to up the ethanol percentage to 15 percent. At one time MN had a law requiring it to move up to 20%. Most vehicles run fine with a 10 percent ethanol mix but many will not honor warranty work when the mix gets higher than that. Flex fuel engines that can run E-85 can run E15 or E20 just fine, though.

The last I heard things were up in the air with likely relief due to federal EPA action. The EPA is ramping back fuel requirements which in turn takes the pressure off of states.

MN's problem has been that it isn't just forcing ethanol blends on every car owner due to federal mandates--there is political pressure from the ethanol industry, many of whom send lots of money to legislators.

Ethanol blends are just fraught with problems.

They DECREASE gas mileage. I'd probably be getting 20 or 21 highway MPG with my hemi if I could straight gas with no ethanol in it, insteatd of the 19 I am getting now. They INCREASE the price of food we pay, since a HUGE percentage of corn that would go to foods or livestock forage is instead sent to ethanol plants, raising the price of our foods dramatically. They wreak havoc on the environment for a variety of reasons.

A host of widely different folks--Environmentalists, car manufacturers, livestock farmers, consumer groups, AAA--have openly advocated for an end to ethanol blend mandates.

mnguy55 09-11-2013 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawoodsman (Post 1197362)
What he's talking about is not E-85, it's E-15. All gas for non-collector vehicles or small engines in MN is required to be mixed with 10 percent ethanol now. E-10. What he's talking about is a mandate to up the ethanol percentage to 15 percent. At one time MN had a law requiring it to move up to 20%. Most vehicles run fine with a 10 percent ethanol mix but many will not honor warranty work when the mix gets higher than that. Flex fuel engines that can run E-85 can run E15 or E20 just fine, though.

The last I heard things were up in the air with likely relief due to federal EPA action. The EPA is ramping back fuel requirements which in turn takes the pressure off of states.

MN's problem has been that it isn't just forcing ethanol blends on every car owner due to federal mandates--there is political pressure from the ethanol industry, many of whom send lots of money to legislators.

Ethanol blends are just fraught with problems.

They DECREASE gas mileage. I'd probably be getting 20 or 21 highway MPG with my hemi if I could straight gas with no ethanol in it, insteatd of the 19 I am getting now. They INCREASE the price of food we pay, since a HUGE percentage of corn that would go to foods or livestock forage is instead sent to ethanol plants, raising the price of our foods dramatically. They wreak havoc on the environment for a variety of reasons.

A host of widely different folks--Environmentalists, car manufacturers, livestock farmers, consumer groups, AAA--have openly advocated for an end to ethanol blend mandates.


I think this is a big deal since as you mention E15 isn't just a federal thing, some states are pushing it although what I am seeing is that eventually the feds will probably require it too.

KYSEAN 09-11-2013 08:20 AM

Think of all the boats we pull with our Rams. E-15 would destroy a marine engine.

Gantman 09-11-2013 09:43 AM

Any ethanol treatment is better than none, unless you have access to a non-ethanol gas station. Seafoam, Startron, Berrymans, Stabil, all work very well. This E-10, and soon E-15 is just a low down, crooked way of making our trips to the fuel station a bit more frequent. EPA is obviously sold to the highest bidders, like our oil companies.

anothernewb 09-11-2013 09:48 AM

If you do some searching, there's a list out there of gas stations that carry non oxy fuel. I'm lucky enough to live in one of the places that has it. There is a notable difference in mileage when I use it, but the darn stuff is higher priced than premium - likely some ba$stad politician mandated that to discourage it's use.

In the meantime. it doesn't work that great for the hemi, but those 87 actually can yield better results in some cars vs the 89 ethanol blend they have here in MN. our Avalon gets 3mpg better in town on 87 than it does on 89, and 2mpg better on the highway.

ever since ethanol started being added to gas to make it crappy I've only used non oxy premium in all my small engines. They tend to use so little fuel that it makes little difference in cost, but huge difference in performance and longevity of the fuel. That, and 2 wrecked lawnmowers and one messed up ice auger because the plastic hoses and gaskets in the carbs melt and turn goey from the freakin ethanol was enough to convince me.

dawoodsman 09-11-2013 10:46 PM

It is against the law to run non-ethanol gas in non-collector vehicles in MN. Not really enforced to my knowledge--but it's pretty clearly marked on every non-ethanol pump. I run premium non ethanol in all my small vehicles and my boat. If we do switch to E-15 I will start taking my chances with the law however, as I am sure many others will. E-10 works just fine in modern vehicles and in fact runs very clean. Adding even more ethanol brings gas mileage down even further though--the higher price for premium might be worth it due to the better gas mileage obtained.

Although as I stated the federal government has backed off of E15 mandates. The danger we have now is due to state politicians. Many are in bed with the ethanol industry and some in fact have a direct stake in an ethanol plant! Steve Sviggum, former speaker of the house and his buddy Tim Pawlenty were behind our current mandates. Steve was an owner of an ethanol plant.

crabjoe 09-12-2013 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gantman (Post 1197580)
Any ethanol treatment is better than none, unless you have access to a non-ethanol gas station. Seafoam, Startron, Berrymans, Stabil, all work very well. This E-10, and soon E-15 is just a low down, crooked way of making our trips to the fuel station a bit more frequent. EPA is obviously sold to the highest bidders, like our oil companies.

Can you point me to proof that these additives negate the negative effects of Ethanol?

I used Starton, Stabil, Seafoam, and a few other but it was never to make E-10 act like non-Ethanol gas. It was to either keep/clean my fuel system or to keep the E10 from phase separating for a longer time... winter storage...

crabjoe 09-12-2013 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KYSEAN (Post 1197547)
Think of all the boats we pull with our Rams. E-15 would destroy a marine engine.

I hate Ethanol in my gas, but can you please tell me how using gas w/Ethanol will destroy a marine engine?

All modern marine engines use hoses and such which are suppose to work fine with Ethanol. The only thing I know of that Ethanol laced gas does is phase separate, can attract moister, clean gunk from older systems, and eat fiberglass fuel tanks (Old Bertrams had fiberglass fuel tanks).

When E10 1st started appearing, in my boat, all I had to do was replace my rubber hoses with something that was safe for E10. I also had to replace my fuel filter more frequently, for a bit of time, because the Ethanol was cleaning my fuel tank of gunk that had accumulated over the years. Outside of that, never had any issues...

Still.. I want Ethanol out of gas!! It's killing the fuel economy in my cars... In a boat, I can't tell because the fuel mileage sux, and weather/water conditions vary to much to get a consistent reading, for a given speed and/or distance.


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