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-   Custom Dodge Ram Performance Mods - Engine - 5.7 HEMI V8 (http://www.ramforumz.com/forumdisplay.php?f=83)
-   -   Cai (http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=153204)

JOlaskowitz 09-17-2013 12:11 PM

Cai
 
I've been looking into installing a CAI but for the money I'm curious as to what kind of improvements in gas mileage and/or performance can I expect to see.
I have a hemi with eight speed trans.
Semper Fi

brandonjansen 09-17-2013 12:48 PM

You will see very minimal gains out of just doing a CAI. The stock intake on the 4th gen Rams is already a true CAI. An aftermarket unit will only give you more noise and slightly better flow. You probably won't notice any power or fuel economy gains. The Vararam would be the one exception to this as it is a completely different style. You will definitely see a few gains with that, especially if you do a lot of highway driving.

I'd personally recommend just modding your stock CAI. Put a drop in K&N filter in it, add a secondary intake tube to the bottom of the air box (lots of threads on this throughout the forum, do a quick search), and change the tube between the air box and the throttle body. You will essentially have a CAI that is just as good if not better than any of the aftermarket set ups and it will cost you less than half the price.

GEOPYR8 09-17-2013 03:16 PM

I would agree with brandonjansen,s assessment.

I have the S & B CAI and other than the loudness factor I didn't see much if any improvement in milage or power, if there was it was fractional at best. I wish I'd seen the tread on modifying the factory air box first as thats the route I'd have gone. A K & N drop in and an additional air intake from the bottom of the air box would be cheaper. Not sure how much the new tube between the air box and engine would set you back though? Might bring it up to the same as some of the cheaper CAI cost. Plus you wouldn't have to take it off and install the original when you take it in for warranty work. :4-dontknow:

JOlaskowitz 09-17-2013 04:33 PM

Thanks guys I appreciate it.

Grubrunner 09-17-2013 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEOPYR8 (Post 1201959)
I would agree with brandonjansen,s assessment.

I have the S & B CAI and other than the loudness factor I didn't see much if any improvement in milage or power, if there was it was fractional at best. I wish I'd seen the tread on modifying the factory air box first as thats the route I'd have gone. A K & N drop in and an additional air intake from the bottom of the air box would be cheaper. Not sure how much the new tube between the air box and engine would set you back though? Might bring it up to the same as some of the cheaper CAI cost. Plus you wouldn't have to take it off and install the original when you take it in for warranty work. :4-dontknow:

It's not too late.

If you're that displeased with your S&B, why don't you remove, repack and send it back to the place of purchase for a refund?

Grubrunner 09-17-2013 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonjansen (Post 1201839)
You will see very minimal gains out of just doing a CAI. The stock intake on the 4th gen Rams is already a true CAI. An aftermarket unit will only give you more noise and slightly better flow. You probably won't notice any power or fuel economy gains. The Vararam would be the one exception to this as it is a completely different style. You will definitely see a few gains with that, especially if you do a lot of highway driving.

I'd personally recommend just modding your stock CAI. Put a drop in K&N filter in it, add a secondary intake tube to the bottom of the air box (lots of threads on this throughout the forum, do a quick search), and change the tube between the air box and the throttle body. You will essentially have a CAI that is just as good if not better than any of the aftermarket set ups and it will cost you less than half the price.

I don't buy the part in bold for one second.

As CdnoilRam has pointed out many times on these boards, there's a good reason why they scrapped "that" type of air feeder during the 80's. Filled up some nice real estate in and around the throttle body area, but didn't do much else.

As for your second paragraph, that's the tune many here whistle. It may just be the case, yes indeed. However, until I see some comparisons backing your claim, I won't invest in that either.

We can agree to disagree....

brandonjansen 09-17-2013 05:47 PM

The bold part is backed by Andrew's (fastNugly) experience with the Vararam. He has said his highway gains are about 3 mpg better fuel economy and a small increase in power. However I do agree what those gains will only be notice with highway driving where the air will be forced into the Vararam as it has been designed for. For normal everyday city driving then yes, a closed CAI is a better option and the stock set up will work fine.

I have read many of CdnoilRam's post about the Vararam and why they scrapped it but it comes back to what I just pointed out above. Yes a new style CAI is better for city driving has it will actually pull in cooler air from outside the engine compartment. But for someone doing highway driving or drag racing the Vararam will perform better for a few different reasons. One being the ram air type design it has, the second being the increased filter area allowing more air in. So yes, really it is wrong to claim that all users will see those gains out of the Vararam, but some will. I could back this up with tons of first and second hand drag racing experience but this post is already long enough. lol.

As far as the stuff goes in my second paragraph I can back up that adding the secondary intake tube did definitely help getting more "cold" air into the engine. I had my Bully Dog monitoring intake air temp. With the secondary pipe installed my intake temps were rarely any more than 10 degrees (F) higher than the outside air temp. At stop lights it might jump out about 5 degrees but that was it. It definitely helped keep the temps down which does create more power. Now that being said, no I didn't feel any difference between having it or not.... but when you have a number of mods just adding little things like that it will make a difference.
Changing the filter and intake tube will simply allow for slightly better flow which again is just one of those small things you can do.

Grubrunner 09-17-2013 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonjansen (Post 1202066)
The bold part is backed by Andrew's (fastNugly) experience with the Vararam. He has said his highway gains are about 3 mpg better fuel economy and a small increase in power. However I do agree what those gains will only be notice with highway driving where the air will be forced into the Vararam as it has been designed for. For normal everyday city driving then yes, a closed CAI is a better option and the stock set up will work fine..

I thought the improvements you were speaking of was HP in the part in bold I quoted.

But seeing as you're speaking of MPG gains, then let's dabble in that briefly. A 3MPG gain is HUGE in anyone's language! I know manufacturers of CAI's will often use those types of numbers as a selling/promotional tool, but in "real world" environments, a 3PMG gain is big. Especially given the very nature of aftermarket CAI's and the main reason people opt for them.

I have no reason to doubt Andrew's claims as I respect him very much. So I'll leave it at that....

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonjansen (Post 1202066)
I have read many of CdnoilRam's post about the Vararam and why they scrapped it but it comes back to what I just pointed out above. Yes a new style CAI is better for city driving has it will actually pull in cooler air from outside the engine compartment. But for someone doing highway driving or drag racing the Vararam will perform better for a few different reasons. One being the ram air type design it has, the second being the increased filter area allowing more air in. So yes, really it is wrong to claim that all users will see those gains out of the Vararam, but some will. I could back this up with tons of first and second hand drag racing experience but this post is already long enough. lol..

Pretty much ANY [reputable] aftermarket CAI with a larger/smoother feed and/or air filter [oiled or non] will improve HP under the conditions you explained, for the very reasons you explained. So to claim that the Vararam is the bee's knees in this regard is [unfairly] singling out them among others. Does the Vararam do a better job under these conditions than the competition/s? Well, there-in lies the debate.

Let me ask you this while we're at it: Why do you think the ram-air design of the 80's is now like dinosaur droppings? I mean, they were the shizzle on all the muscle cars back in the day - ironically under the same conditions you mentioned above - yet now it's easier to find a job than a ram-air designed intake.... ?

Hmmm.... maybe I need to get out n' mingle more often...

:4-dontknow:

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonjansen (Post 1202066)
As far as the stuff goes in my second paragraph I can back up that adding the secondary intake tube did definitely help getting more "cold" air into the engine. I had my Bully Dog monitoring intake air temp. With the secondary pipe installed my intake temps were rarely any more than 10 degrees (F) higher than the outside air temp. At stop lights it might jump out about 5 degrees but that was it. It definitely helped keep the temps down which does create more power. Now that being said, no I didn't feel any difference between having it or not.... but when you have a number of mods just adding little things like that it will make a difference.
Changing the filter and intake tube will simply allow for slightly better flow which again is just one of those small things you can do.

I have no doubt whatsoever that a secondary feeder tube will improve air flow - as I've seen on mine since installing my drop-mouth on the S&B - hence improving other parameters on the truck. But consider my source; it's utilizing anything from the OEM design except the fender opening.

I'm not arguing that point for a second.

The point I was trying to emphasize is, are the changes made to the OEM system as you claimed just as good, if not better than a similar after market design?

Show me some numbers before I invest....

C17LoadMaster 09-17-2013 07:15 PM

I must say I'm finding this an interesting thread. I as well am thinking of CAI and am unsure of the way to go. Keep the debate going.

Red-Stripe 09-17-2013 07:35 PM

C'mon kids, you don't really believe a CAI is going to improve mileage 3mpg ( 20% on 17mpg)?
Sure and I I just saw E.T float by.

Too bad the reality is that the engine computer injects the fuel to the measured amount of air mass. You may get more HP, not not MPG. Wishful thinking.


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