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-   -   Ok, so this might be more of a de-performance question. (http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=69278)

SyntaxNero 12-22-2010 07:51 PM

Ok, so this might be more of a de-performance question.
 
Ok, so this might be more of a de-performance question.

I would like to know what parts I will need and a ‘how to’ convert my 1994 Dodge Ram 1500 5.2L from the PCM controlled, fuel injected truck it is now into a non electronically controlled, carbureted, mechanically gauged truck I want.

If I convert the truck to a carbureted setup, will it still pass smog?
If not, no worries it’s going to get registered in a different state next year and they don’t have the smog requirements Nevada does.

Yes I know this sounds dumb and I don’t want to get into an online battle of justification for my reasons.
I have been reading a lot of the forums and have yet to see any solid, 100%, ‘this is how it’s done’ information posted.

What intake manifold, carburetor, distributor, fuel pressure regulator, mechanical fuel pump(?)

Will I need a 4 barrel linkage kit? What one?

I see that Mopar Performance and Edelbrock make intake manifolds that accept a 4 barrel carburetor and bolt to the Magnum engine.
Best one to get? Why?

What else am I going to need to make this work?

I want to get rid of all the electrical components I can.

If someone lives close to me (Las Vegas) and would like to trade for the swapped parts let me know. My truck runs just fine and has no issues except my NV3500 5 speed manual transmission is on its last legs. I have what I think is third gear in a zip lock bag in the truck right now…

Thank you ahead of time for your responses and the time you took to pound out an answer for me.

Dennyboy 12-22-2010 11:59 PM

you will need to change up some stuff on the gas tank. as our fuel pumps are in the tank. you will need a vacuum point for your brake booster. as well as for your hvac systems i believe. find an air cleaner that will fit. it will need to be tuned(without the tune you will be out major horse power.

there is more i believe but need to think more.

RootBeer 12-23-2010 12:30 AM

You need to get a service manual and find everything that is controlled by the computer, then replace them with mechanical/non-computer controlled parts.

Edit: Now that I have had some time to think about this, here's what comes to mind regarding parts you'll need or need to replace/modify.

1. Fuel pump will have to be removed from the tank and an old school fuel pick up put in its place.
2. Electric fuel pump will have to be put in-line usually along the frame rail.
3. 2 inline fuel filters the kind you can see through. I always use 2 to ensure nothing gets passed into the carb. Mount one between the fuel pump and the tank and the other between the fuel pump and the carb.

4. New intake manifold that actually fits your motor. Not sure where you'll find this but as you mentioned Edlebrock is a good starting point.

5. Holley or Carter carb.
6. Linkage from the gas pedal to the carb.
7. Entire ignition system (distributor, coil, wires, etc). Timing will have to be set up manually. Electronic ignition (old style is better than going with something that has points in it.)

8. Remove any and all computers. Problem here is finding out exactly what those computers control and finding a way to convert them to non-computer controlled.

9. Remove all emissions related components.
10. Whole new vacuum system (new lines and connectors, etc)

Lot of work. Good luck with the project. Keep us informed of the progress and don't forget the pics. :D

SyntaxNero 12-23-2010 10:32 PM

First off I would like to say Thank You to RootBeer for the time you took to pound all that out for me.

Guess what I am gonna be doing with my income tax return...
But before I commit to this act of mental retardation it was pointed out to me by the 'Ask an expert" guy at Summit Racing that doing this is illegal on the Federal level. I read the 1990 Clean Air Act and find nothing saying you can or cant. So I will be calling my DMV and some local legal cats to see whats what.

Here is the response I got from Summit:

EDIT:

Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

We will assume your issue has been resolved if we do not hear from you within 48 hours.

Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.


Subject
Engine Component Question

Discussion Thread
Response (Brad)
12/24/2010 02:57 PM
The bottom line is, you are removing emissions devices. I am not permitted, by law, to assist you with that.
Customer
12/24/2010 02:13 PM
Brad,
"Essentially this portion states that whatever you have under the hood from
the manufacturer is what you are to be actively ( I ) inspected for and what
you are responsible to ( M ) maintain;"
Would you be so kind as to point out to me the (I)(M) sections you are
speaking of?
I just went back and reread the whole thing, thinking I had missed something
from the classes I took. The only Inspection requirements are on the
Manufacturer. If the motor is found to not pass emissions testing and the
motor is with within the mandated warranty time frame the manufacturer is
responsible for repairs and replacement of parts. After that warranty time
expires till the end of the engines "useful life period" it is the
responsibility of the end user of the motor to keep and maintain it in
passing emissions standards. After the "useful life period" of the engine
the standards of CAA 1990 no longer applies, unless the State that the motor
is licensed to operate in has additional standards set forth in law. My
truck is well past its "useful life period" as defined under 7521 (D) (1).

Thank you for your time and help with this matter.
Ryan


Response (Brad)
12/24/2010 09:27 AM
My intention today is to explain why you were given the 1990 Clean Air Act response. As a performance aftermarket parts provider I must remain topically correct regardless of the nature or intent; in this case environmentally/legally correct.
If you are so inclined I can help you enhance your existing platform. I can suggest a carburetor and carbureted intake manifold for a small block Chrysler that is emission friendly up through the 1985 model year. Unfortunately I cannot cover the 1994 vintage in this regard.
A final thought in closing. I’m sure you are aware of the obvious emission provision(s) of the 1990 CAA, however there is a lesser-known provision many are not aware of. That provision is often referred to as the I/M section of the CAA. Essentially this portion states that whatever you have under the hood from the manufacturer is what you are to be actively ( I ) inspected for and what you are responsible to ( M ) maintain; the exceptions to this would be approved parts (usually a C.A.R.B. E. O. # or approved as direct replacement).
Customer
12/23/2010 05:13 PM
Thanks for the recap of the federal smog laws. I am well aware of them. Please provide me with a list of the items I will need to convert from efi to carbbed. Federal law does not restrict one from the conversion as long as the egr and cat are in place and it passes smog.
Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!



----- Reply message -----
From: "Summit Racing"
Date: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 13:32
Subject: Engine Component Question [Incident: 101223-000554]
To:

Recently you
requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.
We will assume your issue has been resolved if we do not hear from you within 48 hours.
Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.

Subject
Engine Component Question
Discussion Thread

Response (Brad) 12/23/2010 04:32 PM



Due to the nature of your inquiry Summit Racing Equipment is unable to advise you at this time.
Please be aware that tampering with emission
control devices is in direct violation with Federal Clean Air Act of 1990. The 1990 Clean Air Act takes a comprehensive approach to reducing pollution from motor vehicles. The Act provides for cleaning up fuels, cars, trucks, buses and other motor vehicles. Auto inspection provisions were included in the law to make sure cars are well maintained. The 1990 law also includes transportation policy changes that can help reduce air pollution.
Summit Racing Equipment cannot determine your proximity to an
attainment/non-attainment area. (a geographic area in which levels of a criteria air pollutant meet or do not meet the health-based primary standard)



Customer 12/23/2010 03:29 PM
CUSTOMER INFO
E-mail Address:
Year: 1994
Make: DODGE
Model: RAM 1500
Engine: 5.2L / 318
Transmission: NVG3500
EXISTING CAM
Computer Controlled: Yes
=============================
Question:

I would like to know what parts I will need and a how to convert my 1994
Dodge Ram 1500 5.2L from the PCM controlled, fuel injected truck it is now into a non electronically controlled, carbureted, mechanically gauged truck I want.

What intake manifold, carburetor, distributor, fuel pressure regulator, mechanical fuel pump(?)
Will I need a 4 barrel linkage kit? What one?



I see that Mopar Performance and Edelbrock make intake manifolds that accept a 4 barrel carburetor and bolt to the Magnum engine.



Best one to get? Why?



What else am I going to need to make this work?
Part Numbers?



I want to get rid of all the electrical components I can.



Question Reference #101223-000554
Product Level 1: Technical Support
Product Level 2: Engine Components
Date Created: 12/23/2010 03:29 PM
Last Updated: 12/23/2010 04:32 PM
Status: Waiting
Order Number:
Phone or Fax Number:

Customer
12/23/2010 03:29 PM
CUSTOMER INFO
E-mail Address:
Year: 1994
Make: DODGE
Model: RAM 1500
Engine: 5.2L / 318
Transmission: NVG3500

EXISTING CAM
Computer Controlled: Yes
Emissions Legal: Yes

=============================
Question: I would like to know what parts I will need and a ‘how to’ convert my 1994 Dodge Ram 1500 5.2L from the PCM controlled, fuel injected truck it is now into a non electronically controlled, carbureted, mechanically gauged truck I want.

If I convert the truck to a carbureted setup, will it still pass smog?
If not, no worries it’s going to get registered in a different state next year and they don’t have the smog requirements Nevada does.

What intake manifold, carburetor, distributor, fuel pressure regulator, mechanical fuel pump(?)

Will I need a 4 barrel linkage kit? What one?

I see that Mopar Performance and Edelbrock make intake manifolds that accept a 4 barrel carburetor and bolt to the Magnum engine.
Best one to get? Why?

What else am I going to need to make this work?
Part Numbers?

I want to get rid of all the electrical components I can.

Question Reference #101223-000554
Product Level 1:
Technical Support
Product Level 2:
Engine Components
Date Created:
12/23/2010 03:29 PM
Last Updated:
12/24/2010 02:57 PM
Status:
Waiting
Order Number:

Phone or Fax Number:




RootBeer 12-23-2010 10:50 PM

Used to be that you could register the vehicle as a "one of a kind" to get around emissions laws. I don't know if that option is still available or what it takes to meet the definition of "one of a kind".

SyntaxNero 12-25-2010 07:28 PM

I have sent detailed emails to the Federal EPA, State EPA and State DMV offices asking for detailed information on such a conversion and the laws/Rules that apply.
When I get a response I will post them in full here.

GTyankee 12-25-2010 09:03 PM

a little background, smog began showing up around 1970
318 (5.2) 1967-2002 stroke 3.31 bore 3.91
The 318 was used as a police engine, mainly in the M-bodies (Diplomats and Gran Furys), but its performance was unexceptional. It was, in many years, the largest engine available in Valiants and their descendents, the Diplomat and Gran Fury. It was used extensively in trucks as well.
From its introduction in 1967 through its conversion to EFI, the 318 was generally treated as a two-barrel workhorse. With the 340 and 360 around, the 318 kept its "economy carb" from 1968 through 1978, when it got a four-barrel option to make performance acceptable with California emissions systems. A four-barrel carburetor was also used as part of a fuel injection replacement kit for Imperial owners (1981-83), and, starting in 1981, in trucks.
A new, more reliable manifold heat control valve was used starting in 1969, featuring replaceable bushings for the valve shaft and a replaceable stainless steel internal seal to shield the bushings. Manifold heat control valve solvent can be squirted through the vent holes to keep the valve operating freely.

Camshafts
318 2 barrel 67 Hydraulic 390/390 244/244
318 2 barrel through 88 Hydraulic 373/400 240/248
318 4 barrel Hydraulic 430/444 268/276
318 roller cam Hydraulic 391/391 240/240
Tons of info http://www.allpar.com/mopar/318.html

even more info http://www.allpar.com/mopar/4bbl.html it includes doing some hot rodding tricks

there are books that you may want to order at the bottom of the page

all the information that you need & likely more
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=...41562a61b59af3

Toms Blue Ram 1500 12-25-2010 10:28 PM

Seems like a awful lot of work . Whats the reason for doing this ?

SyntaxNero 12-25-2010 11:06 PM

Ok, so I will need a Holley 600cfm vac Sec four barrel carburetor for a stock 318, so I can keep some fuel economy as well as power.

Will I need a 4 barrel linkage kit? What one?

I still need to know what intake manifold will bolt down and line up right. Single or Dual plane?
Do they make a intake manifold that has the mount for the carburetor in the front so an air filter will mount?

Will I need to change out the distributor? If so, what one will drop in?

Do they make a mechanical fuel pump for the 318?

Change to 2.5" dual exhaust.

SyntaxNero 12-25-2010 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toms Blue Ram 1500 (Post 390515)
Seems like a awful lot of work . Whats the reason for doing this ?

Just chalk me up as one of them "nut :att: jobs" that is concerned with the coming possibility of an electromagnetic pulse. :LOL:


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