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ExclusiveRam 04-11-2011 10:54 PM

O2 sensor & programmer question....
Srry for the novice questions, but I'm coming from a strictly import background and just got into having American cars and trucks, on a Honda/Acura for example we can chip the computer, like you get "programmer" for the rams.... On an import we can eliminate the o2 sensors so the computer doesn't need them and u basically trick the ecru to thinking that the air fuel is always perfect..... I have a California emissions 4.7 and my o2 took a crap on me, gas is even worse and exhaust is leaking, so I'm redoing my exhaust in my shop with a 2.5" and magna flow muffler, and eliminating all cats, so I wanted to eliminate the o2 if possible either with a programmer or manually and also with a programmer.....

Please some1 help with any suggestions or n e one that has done something like this, what my options are and what programmer to use..... Thanks a lot btw I'm in nj so inspection is no issue!

snrusnak 04-12-2011 09:15 AM

Let me first say I am no expert on the subject, but have some knowledge. I do not believe you can eliminate the o2 sensors as they are the primary sensor for adjusting the a/f ratio. If you were to figure out a way to eliminate them and revert to preset fuel maps, this seems like a step backwards as that would be like running a carburetor, always at one setting, and would hurt mpg and performance. It is best to have the sensors working properly to adjust for differences in atmosphere, etc... I'm thinking on your other cars you maybe eliminated the rear o2 sensor that was behind the catalytic converter(only used to indicate if the cat is operating correctly) and didn't eliminate the front o2 sensors that are used for a/f ratio. I did this in my s10, spaced the rear o2 out of the exhaust stream with a spark plug non fouler because my cat was hollowed out and I didn't want the check engine light on....

erm 04-12-2011 02:37 PM

What year is your truck? Need to know that in order to see what programmer is available for your truck.

I would leave the o2 sensors in as your A/F ratio varies with load and the computer needs to get readings from them to adjust fuel delivery given engine demands, load, ambient conditions, etc...

The rest of the exhaust system leaks should be repaired for sure.

Good luck!

snrusnak 04-12-2011 03:09 PM

well, no matter what year it is, there isn't a programmer out that you can turn off sensors is there? I saw on another thread that someone said with superchips you could adjust a/f ratios, well I have superchips and have not found this feature....if I'm wrong about this stuff someone correct me?

ExclusiveRam 04-12-2011 07:13 PM

my truck is a 2003 and to answer snrusnak on my hondas the 02 sensors were eliminated completely and the car was tunned using the o2 sensor from the dyno for the reading, once the car was tunned at the perfect a/f ration it was saved to the computer and basically whether its hot or cold the motor would always run the same.....

as for a "non fouler" im all for the idea so that the o2 doesnt read a check engine but does this mean i would just keep the rear o2's and eliminate the fronts.....?

my whole thing is if, i could get away with just having to buy a programmer and spend $400 as opposed to spending $400 on a programmer and then another $400+ on o2's....

snrusnak 04-12-2011 09:32 PM

It sounds like what you did on your hondas was have the computer locked into open loop mode, which should hurt drivability, performance, and economy.

As far as what I did with the non fouler, I bought a spark plug non fouler (basically an extension for your spark plug) that had the same threads as the o2 sensor, and put it in between the exhaust pipe and the rear o2 sensor(i actually think I used two non foulers to make sure it was spaced out of the exhaust stream enough). If I remember correctly I had to drill out the center of the non fouler that I screwed the o2 sensor into, but this was just a little bit and with a regular drill and regular drill bits. I don't know why this works, but it keeps the check engine light off. I don't know what it'd do if you did it to the front o2 sensors(I don't even know if these trucks have front and rear sets of sensors) but I'd assume it would just make it run slightly poorer or less responsive.

To eliminate the o2 sensors, you'd have to find a way to program the computer to basically run in closed loop all the time. This would result in you having to tune the vehicle to run a one setting, so if you wanted it to run fast for the track, it would probably get terrible gas mileage, and be hard to start, amongst other things.... Again, I maybe know 50% of the info on the subject, but from what I understand this is not a very good idea, just get the new o2's and let the computer/sensors do their job, there's a reason they set them up this way. Also, if you have exhaust leaks near the o2's they will keep going bad, for some reason (again I don't know why) but the air outside the exhaust will ruin them...for example if you ran open headers with o2's in the collectors (6" from the outlet of the exhaust), the o2's would immediately go bad and the car would run poorly if run at all.

ExclusiveRam 04-12-2011 11:23 PM

Then in that case I'll just get the o2 sensors and a programmer, but I definitely want to remove the stock cats from the truck for the power and the fact that the cats are already super old and rusty..... So I'm going to take a better look at the o2 locations and if they front ones are before the cat which chances are they are, I will leave them be and just do the non fouler idea for the rear and c where it goes fro there"

snrusnak 04-12-2011 11:32 PM

You will definitely have o2's in front of cats, possibly another set behind the cats. A tuner won't be necessary but you can get a little performance out of it (I have the superchips on my 4.7L and it is the best money spend on any performance gain by far). I don't know if the non fouler trick will work for you, I just know it worked on my s10 (I found it online from someone else who did it, I wish I asked how and why it worked). I strongly recommend you keep cats on the truck, at least high flow aftermarket, you can probably sell your stock ones and buy aftermarket ones for cheaper. Catalytic converters are very valuable hungs of metal, and only restrict exhaust flow very slightly, but really make a drastic difference in what comes out of the pipe. At the end of the day, I guess it's up to you...I ran an open cat on my s10, it sounded worse, smelled bad, and was bad for the environment. I probably gained about 1 hp, now I know better lol. Hope you get it all figured out...

ExclusiveRam 04-13-2011 12:27 AM

Thx bro, well on Monday I'll be taking her under the knife, I'll keep every1 posted....

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