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-   -   Valve ticking, DTC's and other problems. (http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=95356)

Muddy 10-28-2011 11:00 PM

Valve ticking, DTC's and other problems.
 
I have been lurking on this website for a long while trying to find answers to why my Dodge is acting the way it is. If these questions have already been answered I really do apologize, I have looked and looked and found nothing to answer my problems.
I have a 2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4WD w/ a 4.7L V8 that I bought when stationed in PA so it is a Cali Emissions vehicle. Mods I have done to it were 1st, a Cherry Bomb Pro Series that dumps as soon as it exits the muffler. 2nd I bought a Hypertech Programmer, this is when problems started showing up. No matter what fuel setting it is set for, the valves rattle severly when the truck climbs a hill. After I took the tune out and set it back to factory settings, the rattle would stop. I started looking on the internet to see if others were having the same issue and saw nothing. So I contacted Hypertech and told them of the problem. They wrote a new formula for my programmer and I loaded it into the truck. It worked fine after that for about 2 oil changes, then the valve rattle started back. Also, a couple of DTC's started showing up. a P0430 and P127E. Now I know P0430 is for Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold, but the other I have no clue. So again I remove the program and have the truck checked. Dealer told me nothing was wrong. I told him that I have been programming it with a Hypertech and he said that shouldn't have nothing to do with it. So I got home and reprogrammed it. At the same time I ordered a K&N CAI to see if that would help. Maybe not enough air was coming in for the amount going out. Silly thought maybe but worth a shot. Didn't help. I am still getting these two codes about every 3 fill-ups. Not only does it rattle when programmed but it has started to do it also without the Hypertech program in it.
Also, from day one with this truck it had a small knock that is audible only at warm up. Not the normal Dodge tick but a knock. I went to the dealer in PA, to 2 in TX, one in GA and one here in NV and they all say it's nothing. It is getting louder and seriously sounds like a rod knocking along with the normal Dodge tick. This is the 7th Chrysler product I've owned so I don't really think it is normal as they say. Most of them never would keep it over night so they could hear it in the morning when it is at its loudest.
Other important info you may need; 1st 3 oil changes where with 5W-20 Valvoline Durablend and everyone after that has been 5W-20 Valvoline Full Synthetic, changed ever 3000 miles. It is a Big Horn Edition but the 20's were removed and 17's put on w/ 285 70/17 BFG KM2's and still has the factory 3.92 gearing. I do a lot of trail driving here in the NV deserts. Have hauled some but nothing overly heavy, mainly just the moves I've done back and forth across the country. My drive to work is 35 miles one way at 65mph. I don't really race the engine but the RPM's have been up to 6000 more then a couple of times. Any help will be appreciated, thank you.

starquestbd22 10-29-2011 11:06 AM

Hmmmmm, was the knocking that you first heard when you programmed it with the Hypertech detonation (aka spark knock)? I assume the Hypertech works the same as other tuners by advancing the timing. What grade of fuel have you been running in it? Most tuners require a higher octane fuel after tuning. Advanced timing plus too low octane fuel and/or anything more than light pulling or hauling would definitely cause detonation. I know severe detonation can lead to holes where there was not holes before but I don't know about bearing wear/failure. Maybe light detenation of a long period of time?

Best I can find, P127E is a fault between the TIPM and the fuel pump. Here's some good info on it.

http://www.justanswer.com/dodge/16pc...code-mean.html

Muddy 10-29-2011 04:50 PM

Yeah I was thinking the same thing about detonation so I've tried defferent fuels and different octanes. Even used high octane with Lucas octane booster and low octane with Lucas octane booster. I could hear this knock over the normal Mopar tick from the day I drove it off the lot and it has progressivly gotten worse to the point there is no way it can be "nothing to worry about" as the techs that have looked at have said. I am going to try another dealer and press them to actually look at it, drive it around and such this time. I guess that is all I can do. Thank you though for your help. At least I know now what that code is. Anyone know of a very trustworthy dealer with techs here in Las Vegas?

snrusnak 10-29-2011 11:39 PM

I don't believe what you're hearing is spark knock. I think the truck has a knock sensor and will retard timing if it is knocking no matter what tune and octane you are using(at least that's the way it's supposed to work). I fear it is rod knock or piston slap. Do you think the noise would show up on video? Maybe you can post it and we can try to identify it. Also, I would not put any more additives in the engine, only oil. Additives can hurt things instead of make them better. How many miles on the truck? And how many miles when you bought it?

I find it very odd you randomly got those codes, they should have nothing to do with the knocking you're hearing. I'd try setting it back to stock, and driving it for a long time and see if any codes come back and if the knock goes away. Like maybe days-weeks. A few tanks of fuel...

Muddy 10-30-2011 12:06 AM

I bought it brand new with only 3 miles on it. It now has about 56,000. About 3 times that I've gotten codes, I've put it back to factory for a month or more. The knocking remains but it has only thrown the P127E code once without it programed. Only reason I can think of for the techs to say that everything is normal is becuase the exhaust is a little loud indoors (they all have tried to listen for it inside the garage bay) at idle. But if they would keep it over night, they definantly would hear it first thing in the morning. Forgot to mention the knocking speeds up as the idle speeds up and slows down as I let off the gas and idle slows down. Which leads me to believe that it is a rod but I would think that it would so a trouble code for that by now. No oil is burning, oil never smells burnt when changed. And the knocking is way louder in the morning then after driven all day. I just had surgery on my back Monday so sometime next week when I'm able to drive again I will start trying the techs at the local dealers here again. Thanks for the help though guys, I appreciate it.

snrusnak 10-30-2011 12:19 AM

Quote:

Forgot to mention the knocking speeds up as the idle speeds up and slows down as I let off the gas and idle slows down.
This sounds like rod knock or piston slap. A definite possibility. If you've always had the truck, have never oil starved it, and don regular oil changes, it's near impossible to have rod knock/piston slap though, so that's very strange. And you would never get a check engine light/code from rod knock/piston slap, there's no sensor for that.

EDIT: Could still be valve tap though, valve tap will increase speed with increased engine speed. Sounds like you know the difference though....valve tap vs rod knock/piston slap. valve tap is more rapid also(more times per revolution than rod knock/piston slap)

Muddy 10-30-2011 01:59 PM

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Just can't believe that the rod hasn't broken through yet after 56,000 miles. I know my way around motorcycle engines more then car though so I don't know. Was just trying to figure out if others with the 4.7L where having the same problem. I've had a 2001 w/ a 5.2, a 2003 w/ a 5.7, a 2005 w/ a 4.7 and this one. They've all had the valve tap so I knew that was normal. Just don't know much about this current generation 4.7L. Thanks again for your help. Like I said, once I'm able to crawl in my truck again, hopefully next week, I'll take it yet to another dealer and find out if they tell me the same thing or actually find a problem. At least this one came with a lifetime powertrain warrenty.

snrusnak 10-30-2011 05:39 PM

Also the new generation 4.7L has a stronger bottom end, so it's even more unlikely to have damage if the oil has been good it's whole life. I wonder if it was somehow starved of oil or romped on in it's first few miles before you had it. Or hopefully it's just something else lol.

Muddy 10-30-2011 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snrusnak (Post 646641)
Also the new generation 4.7L has a stronger bottom end, so it's even more unlikely to have damage if the oil has been good it's whole life. I wonder if it was somehow starved of oil or romped on in it's first few miles before you had it. Or hopefully it's just something else lol.

Yeah,I change my oil every 3000 miles. Im OCD about it. And I do keep forgeting about one thing. At about 1000 miles is when I installed my Cherry Bomb. My welder crapped out half way through so I took it to a place down the road and had them finish it. As soon as the kid finished, he jumped in the truck and like 2 secs after starting it, romped on it. I yelled at him but I can't see that doing anything. All I know is, something is wrong and I don't know what it is lol. All of my previous Dodges have all been good to me and the tick I know is normal. The knock can't be, even after 56,000 miles.

I see you have a SuperChips for your truck. Do you have any experience with Hypertech? I have always gotten Superchips for my Mopars, I don't know why I didn't this time. Was just wondering if you thought one was better then the other and which one for this new 4.7L?

snrusnak 10-30-2011 06:18 PM

Yeah can't see that really hurting anything if it was one instance.

I love the superchips, it's the only tuner I've ever personally used on my vehicles. I have some experience through others with diablo, none with hypertech. Hypertech's claims appear to be similar to the SC and diablo for this engine, but I don't think they have as many options overall. I doubt that is the cause, I don't see how any tuning could cause rod knock or piston slap. It MAYBE could have had an extreme detonation from bad tune at high rpm, but again I'd think a knock sensor would prevent it, and you'd DEFINITELY notice something that severe if it had happened. Even then, if it did happen, it likely wouldn't hurt anything as I said before the bottom end on the new 4.7L is extremely strong.


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