Okay guys got to the point to where i want a huge performance boost. Since i have a 4.7L 2010 regular cab RAM not much Big performance gainers are available (supercharger/turbo ect.). This being said i decided to go after the nitrous idea. These are my thoughts. Please correct me or help me out. I can use all your opinions and suggestions, that be great!:smileup:
I want to go with a 100 shot window switch from 3000 rpm to 5500rpm. Since a diablosport device "should" allow me to retard my timing ill also have to purchase a predator. I am unsure about the colder plugs is it 2 degrees for every 100HP? I'm new and uneducated to this lol.
What else do i need? what safety devises do i need to purchase along with the nitrous system. also what brand is good to go with. And what are you all's thoughts on this whole idea.
if you get a zex wet kit..your probably good to go except for colder plugs (ngk4306's).. I run a 150 on mine and i haven't changed anything on the tune side (just colder plugs)
If you run colder plugs then you don't need to pull timing, however I would still pick up the programer and use the 87 tune but run premium. I also agree with the zex kit with the window switch.
Not trying to say your wrong fred, but I'm not sure if you're familiar with the plug setup on the 4.7L. They use different plugs on the lower and upper banks. Lower are iridium and upper are IIRC nickel? I've been told by many people not to F with this lol. I'm not sure what the plug you mentioned is but just wanted to throw this out there.
What if he runs the 87 superchips tune with colder plugs on a 100 wet shot? Should be ok then, right?
I couldn't find colder plugs to the oem ones when I looked. Let me know if you find them. As much as I say I want to stop spending money on my truck, I might consider following your lead with the juice...
I'm not sure that that is correct. Also, keep in mind that's only one plug, you have two per cylinder, and they are different plugs. Going from memory, I think the one you posted there(the bosch nickel yttrium) is intake side, and the exhaust side is a bosch iridium plug.
Honestly I'd contact Bosch and see if they can just tell you what plugs are the same but one heat range colder.
After looking at the plugs on their site though, it says "oe/specialty" so maybe they were specially designed for that engine and they are only available in one heat range. I'm not sure of the effects of a different type of plug. If anything I'd try an iridium plug in all 16 holes and see how it runs(monitor mpg, etc.). I THINK the only reason they enhanced the plugs with yttrium was to prolong life. They are getting 50k miles out of a copper plug(enhanced with yttrium). Normally copper plugs only last 30k miles. I don't THINK it has to do with performance.
I didn't check the info you posted but these are the stock plugs (bosch) from what I've found:
Intake:
Part # FR8TE2
Yttrium enhanced for longer performance life
Also says it has 2 ground electrodes
Center Electrode Core Material: Nickel-Yttrium and Copper
Center Electrode Tip Material: Nickel-Yttrium
Ground Electrode Tip Material: Nickel-Yttrium and Copper
Exhaust:
Part # FR8TI332
Center Electrode Tip Material: Iridium
Ground Electrode Tip Material: Nickel-Yttrium
You don't have to change them. Hotter plugs clean themselves better, and I think are better for emissions. If you go one heat range colder you won't experience any problems. If you were to jump say 4 heat ranges you might have some issues with the plugs not cleaning themselves well and fouling easily. Sometimes too hot of a plug can also cause preignition(usually on air cooled engines, not liquid cooled).
For example on my buell the cylinder head temp gets as hot as about 450 deg F, and with the stock plugs when it would get that hot(sitting in traffic, etc.) it would sometimes preignite. The plug retains so much heat that it gets so hot where it causes the compressed air/fuel to combust before the plug actually fires. I changed to the same plugs one heat range colder and it stopped doing that.
This usually doesn't happen with liquid cooled engines since the temperature is maintained better within a certain range, the plug doesn't get extremely hot like that and cause a hot spot for ignition.
A colder plug simply has less insulation around it's core(so it can transfer heat faster away through it's body and into the cylinder head).
The reach between the two NGK's you posted is actually different. Timmy's NGK plug has a reach that matches the OEM Bosch plug. The other NGK plug that you show is a different reach from OEM(not sure if this matters).
Also, they might be a suitable replacement(not really sure honestly) but they do not appear to be "yttrium enhanced". I'm not even really sure what the yttrium even does, I think it might just be for longevity and have nothing to do with performance.
I'm trying to help but honestly don't have "the answer". A plug like one of those NGK's might be a suitable replacement(not really sure), but it is NOT the same as an OEM plug that is one heat range colder. Again, I know that's not an answer, but it's all I know lol.
EDIT: Also, another difference between the OEM Bosch intake plug is that it says it has two ground electrodes and the NGK I believe does not. Again, not really sure if this makes a difference.
I used what O'Reilly had for the stock plugs, and the numbers for the NGK plugs. They have an advanced plug builder where you enter the specs you need and it spits out the part numbers for matching plugs. Stock heat range for the new motors is 5, so a heat range 6 is what you want for nitrous. The intake plugs are the same for both the 4.7 and the 5.7....that was an easy one. The exhaust plugs are a little bit tricky. I got as close as I could. I would have to see the plug to make sure it was the same except the heat range.
Ok. The OEM plug for the intake side of the 4.7L is the Bosch yttrium with two ground electrodes though. Whether or not it makes much if any difference to use the OEM hemi plug :4-dontknow:
I'm going to do some more research before changing my plugs, but from what I can tell, yttrium is only used in these plugs to resist wear and oxidation. So going to a regular copper core plug(with the same specs) and not having yttrium would simply reduce plug life. You will probably have to change them every 30k miles instead of every 50k miles. The only other difference would be you will only have one ground electrode instead of two(I think this doesn't effect power, it is just to help reduce the chance of fouling).
Same with the iridiums that are yttrium enhanced(exhaust plug). You'd probably need to change a regular iridium(without yttrium) that has all the other same specs every 60-70k miles instead of every 100k miles.
Damn there are a lot of spark plugs out there lol. I'm actually having trouble finding all the needed info online. Wish I had some catalogs of all each manufacturers plugs...
Here's what I found that Bosch, Champion, and NGK offer for replacements for the 4.7L according to their websites:
Bosch (OEM)
Intake Side.................FR8TE2
Exhaust Side.............................................................FR8TI332
Center Electrode Core...Nickel-Yttrium and Copper.............Iridium
Center Electrode Tip.....Nickel-Yttrium.............................Iridium
Ground Electrode..........Nickel-Yttrium and Copper.........Nickel-Yttrium
Reach........................26.5mm....................................26.5mm
Ground Electrodes..........2...............................................1
Champion
Intake Side................REC12MCC4
Exhaust Side................................................9055
Center Electrode Core.....Copper.....................Iridium
Center Electrode Tip.......Copper.....................Iridium
Ground Electrode............Copper....................Platinum
Reach............................26.5mm..................26.5mm
Ground Electrodes..............1............................1
NGK
Intake Side................LZFR5C-11 (OEM 5.7 plug)
Exhaust Side......................................................PLZFR5B13EG
Center Electrode Core............Copper
Center Electrode Tip..............Copper......................Platinum
Ground Electrode..................................................Platinum
Reach.................................26.5mm......................26.5mm
Ground Electrodes....................1..............................1
From what I understand, multiple electrodes does nothing for performance(and may actually slightly decrease it from shrouding the spark). The purpose of multiple electrodes is to provide longer plug life. Electricity takes path of least resistance so you still only get 1 spark between the center electrode and 1 ground electrode, but the plug lasts twice as long since you have two ground electrodes. Once one gets carbon buildup on it or fouled then it will fire on the other ground electrode.
So IMO screw the dual ground electrode design.
Same with yttrium, it appears to only be for longevity, don't worry about it.
So IMO there are a few options here...
Let's start with the exhaust side plug. I'd definitely replace it with another plug that has an iridium center electrode tip and a nickel ground electrode. This gives you basically the same plug as stock(minus yttrium enhanced ground electrode), so should last close to 100,000 miles.
The intake side has more options depending on your preference. You could choose a plug that has a nickel center electrode tip and a nickel ground electrode. This plug should last AT LEAST 30k miles, maybe longer. You could also go with a copper core and tip plug that would probably only last up to 30k mile(and have a decrease in performance as mileage increases). Another option would be to go with an iridium plug, this would give a longer lasting plug with best performance(I think...lol).
Basically, all materials pretty much give the same performance when new. The reason the "better" materials are "better" is because the metals don't erode, and maintain a strong and positive spark with miles, so they don't decrease in performance as the lower grade materials do.
It appears that the OEM 4.7L plugs are "special" designed for that engine, so you won't find the same plug in a colder heat range. Going to another plug shouldn't decrease performance(assuming a proper plug is chosen) but longevity MIGHT decrease a little.
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