DODGE RAM FORUM - Ram Forums and Owners Club! - Dodge Truck Forum

Go Back   DODGE RAM FORUM - Ram Forums and Owners Club! - Dodge Truck Forum > Dodge Ram Forum - General Discussion > 2013 Dodge Ram Forum


Notices

2013 Dodge Ram Forum For specific discussion of the 2013 Dodge Ram!


Latest Vendor News
AutoAnything
Addictive Desert Designs!
United Radio
Bayou Goat Mounts

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 08-07-2013, 04:07 PM
LS1EB's Avatar
LS1EB LS1EB is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 147
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2013 Ram 1500 QC 4X4
Trim Level: Express
Color: Copperhead Pearl
Engine: 2009-20?? 345ci (5.7L) Hemi V8 390hp 407lb/ft
Rep Power: 0
Rep:54
LS1EB will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Designflaw View Post
That would be incorrect. The Mads Smarty series downloads the entire program from your computer and replaces it with a modified version rather than a flash update of portions of the program or so that is my understanding. You must restore it to stock prior to going to the dealer and there is no footprint.

With my 2005 Cummins we tested this at a local dealer (friend was the service manager) Not even the Flash Count of the computer was changed.

http://www.smartydieseltuner.com/sit...5/page/3132264
You are 100% correct, a Smarty does not leave a footprint on a 2005 Cummins. However, this is NOT true with the new generation trucks. There is thread after thread on the diesel forums proving that to be true. There is no tuner that does not leave a footprint on the new generation Cummins, even Smarty. Spend 5 minutes browsing a diesel forum and you will see this is true.
__________________
2013 QC Express 4x4 Hemi, Copperhead Pearl, painted tails & 3rd, black badges & wheels, 20% tint.

Last edited by LS1EB; 08-07-2013 at 04:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-07-2013, 04:18 PM
LS1EB's Avatar
LS1EB LS1EB is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 147
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2013 Ram 1500 QC 4X4
Trim Level: Express
Color: Copperhead Pearl
Engine: 2009-20?? 345ci (5.7L) Hemi V8 390hp 407lb/ft
Rep Power: 0
Rep:54
LS1EB will become famous soon enough
Default

Now back to the OPs question, yes a dealer will know you have a tuner on the truck and CAN void your warranty, this doesn’t mean they will. Chrysler has gotten much more strict and will actually threaten to remove the dealer’s license if they perform warranty service on a Cummins with certain modifications. Now I say threaten because I do not believe Chrysler would actually shoot themselves in the foot by preventing dealers from selling their brand, but they do threaten nonetheless. What most of the new diesel guys are doing is leaving the truck stock for 15-20k miles and making sure that they don’t have any serious mechanical problems during engine/transmission break in. Then they modify the trucks after this period.

If you are going to put a tuner on the truck do your truck an even bigger favor and remove the EGR & DPF from the truck at the same time. Those can cause issues if you run a programmer and increase the fueling capabilities of the truck. I have always owned diesels and am a huge diesel guy and decided not the purchase a new 6.7L because there are reports after reports of those trucks coming into the dealer every 20k miles or so because they won’t run. What is happening is that the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) is sending the un-burnt fuel back into the intake horn and literally clogging up the intake so bad not enough air can't reach the engine. This happens all the time at dealers, just go ask a service manager. This is much more likely to happen if you don’t treat your truck like a heavy duty truck and make lots of in-town trips without getting the EGTs (exhaust gas temps) up. I daily drive mine and only town about once a month and couldn’t bring myself to buy a 60k truck and feel like I am ruining it driving it, yet couldn’t stand the thought of voiding the warranty by removing those systems.
__________________
2013 QC Express 4x4 Hemi, Copperhead Pearl, painted tails & 3rd, black badges & wheels, 20% tint.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-08-2013, 02:30 AM
acasey acasey is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Newcomer
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Vero Beach, FL.
Age: 45
Posts: 7
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2013 2500 Laramie
Color: Black
Engine: 2011-20?? 409ci (6.7L) Cummins Turbo Diesel 350hp 800lb/ft
Rep Power: 0
Rep:10
acasey is on a distinguished road
Default

I do a lot of driving usually 150-175 miles one way 4-5 days a week. I just want to increase my mileage and everyone tells me to install a tuner, but they aren't the ones having to deal with a warranty issue if it should arise. one person told me that the dealer has a tuner that would not void my warranty. I don't buy it. Thanks for all the info, I guess I'll run it stock until the warranty runs out.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-08-2013, 06:28 AM
Monster5601 Monster5601 is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Oakland, Michigan
Age: 64
Posts: 1,217
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2013 RAM 1500 Laramie
Trim Level: Laramie
Color: Cherry Red
Engine: 2009-20?? 345ci (5.7L) Hemi V8 390hp 407lb/ft
Rep Power: 2
Rep:465
Monster5601 is a glorious beacon of lightMonster5601 is a glorious beacon of lightMonster5601 is a glorious beacon of lightMonster5601 is a glorious beacon of lightMonster5601 is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Designflaw View Post
No reason not to believe you - You may be smarter than the service manager of the largest dealership in the state
This isn't an issue of who is smarter, it is all about what the dealer's service bay tools are programmed to do. As a team member, I designed and coded engine controllers, primarily the abstraction layer between the application and the hardware. Also worked on various strategies and diagnostics which I still do today albeit on body electronics. I have first hand knowledge of the full diagnostic abilities of on-board electronics.

Dealers do not have access to every facet of an ECU, they only have access to what their tool allows them to have. The tool's programming is controlled by the manufacture. There are thousands of data identifiers (DIDs) that are not know to the dealer's service bay tools keeping them from seeing everything their is to see.

This is just an FYI, if you change the programming of your engine controller for example, damage the engine and try for a warranty claim, it is very likely your engine controller will be looked at which will identify the cause and reason. It is all about controlling warranty costs.

Lastly, and I do not have the answer to this question and it has always mystified me and my peers. How does a third party figure out how to re-fashed and where all the various calibration tables are. Simply because of the complexity of the programming, 100s of thousands of calibration points, seed and key lock security of several levels, does a third party figure this out? We can only guess the information is leaked because to reverse engineer this would take years.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-08-2013, 10:21 AM
Designflaw's Avatar
Designflaw Designflaw is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lexington Ky
Age: 46
Posts: 341
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2013 Ram 1500 4x4 Sport
Trim Level: Sport
Color: Red
Engine: 2009-20?? 345ci (5.7L) Hemi V8 390hp 407lb/ft
Rep Power: 0
Rep:40
Designflaw is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster5601 View Post
This isn't an issue of who is smarter, it is all about what the dealer's service bay tools are programmed to do. As a team member, I designed and coded engine controllers, primarily the abstraction layer between the application and the hardware. Also worked on various strategies and diagnostics which I still do today albeit on body electronics. I have first hand knowledge of the full diagnostic abilities of on-board electronics.

Dealers do not have access to every facet of an ECU, they only have access to what their tool allows them to have. The tool's programming is controlled by the manufacture. There are thousands of data identifiers (DIDs) that are not know to the dealer's service bay tools keeping them from seeing everything their is to see.

This is just an FYI, if you change the programming of your engine controller for example, damage the engine and try for a warranty claim, it is very likely your engine controller will be looked at which will identify the cause and reason. It is all about controlling warranty costs.

Lastly, and I do not have the answer to this question and it has always mystified me and my peers. How does a third party figure out how to re-fashed and where all the various calibration tables are. Simply because of the complexity of the programming, 100s of thousands of calibration points, seed and key lock security of several levels, does a third party figure this out? We can only guess the information is leaked because to reverse engineer this would take years.
I think LS1EB got me on this - This was back in 05, and I'm sure everything has changed and gotten smarter. I forget I had that truck for 8 years only 70,000 miles, and it never went to the dealership for anything other than a recall.

But like you said, the reverse engineering these days must be crazy. Leaking would probably be a big part. Digital copies of $200,000,000.00 blockbusters are on the streets before they are in the theaters!!
__________________
2013 CC Sport 4x4: 3.55, 20% Tint, Line-X, fender flares, mud flaps, Weather Techs, bed cover, 2.5 Leveling kit, Blacked out emblems, Vararam Air Grabber
2008 M109R LE, 1999 TL1000R, 2003 Yamaha Golf Cart :hah:
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Advertisement






All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:02 PM.


= Copyright RamForumZ.com a Gigathreads.com Network Site =Ad Management by RedTyger
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vB.Sponsors


=Gigathreads Network=
CLUBS MOPAR NATION DSM GPMM MAMM JAM
DIESEL Diesel Forum      
CHEVY Chevy Camaro Forum Chevy Volt Forum    
CHRYSLER Chrysler 300C Forum      
DODGE Dodge Avenger Forum Dodge Caliber Forum Dodge Challenger Forum Dodge Charger Forum
  Dodge Circuit Forum Dodge Hornet Forum Dodge Magnum Forum Dodge Nitro Forum
  Dodge Ram Forum Dodge Dakota Forum Dodge Durango Forum Dodge Dart Forum
FORD Ford Raptor Forum Ford F150 Forum Ford F100 Forum  
JEEP Jeep Forum      
PONTIAC Pontiac G8 Forum      
SRT SRT Viper Forum SRT Cuda Forum