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  #11  
Old 08-07-2013, 03:07 PM
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LS1EB LS1EB is offline
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Originally Posted by Designflaw View Post
That would be incorrect. The Mads Smarty series downloads the entire program from your computer and replaces it with a modified version rather than a flash update of portions of the program or so that is my understanding. You must restore it to stock prior to going to the dealer and there is no footprint.

With my 2005 Cummins we tested this at a local dealer (friend was the service manager) Not even the Flash Count of the computer was changed.

http://www.smartydieseltuner.com/sit...5/page/3132264
You are 100% correct, a Smarty does not leave a footprint on a 2005 Cummins. However, this is NOT true with the new generation trucks. There is thread after thread on the diesel forums proving that to be true. There is no tuner that does not leave a footprint on the new generation Cummins, even Smarty. Spend 5 minutes browsing a diesel forum and you will see this is true.
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Last edited by LS1EB; 08-07-2013 at 03:18 PM.
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  #12  
Old 08-07-2013, 03:18 PM
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Now back to the OPs question, yes a dealer will know you have a tuner on the truck and CAN void your warranty, this doesn’t mean they will. Chrysler has gotten much more strict and will actually threaten to remove the dealer’s license if they perform warranty service on a Cummins with certain modifications. Now I say threaten because I do not believe Chrysler would actually shoot themselves in the foot by preventing dealers from selling their brand, but they do threaten nonetheless. What most of the new diesel guys are doing is leaving the truck stock for 15-20k miles and making sure that they don’t have any serious mechanical problems during engine/transmission break in. Then they modify the trucks after this period.

If you are going to put a tuner on the truck do your truck an even bigger favor and remove the EGR & DPF from the truck at the same time. Those can cause issues if you run a programmer and increase the fueling capabilities of the truck. I have always owned diesels and am a huge diesel guy and decided not the purchase a new 6.7L because there are reports after reports of those trucks coming into the dealer every 20k miles or so because they won’t run. What is happening is that the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) is sending the un-burnt fuel back into the intake horn and literally clogging up the intake so bad not enough air can't reach the engine. This happens all the time at dealers, just go ask a service manager. This is much more likely to happen if you don’t treat your truck like a heavy duty truck and make lots of in-town trips without getting the EGTs (exhaust gas temps) up. I daily drive mine and only town about once a month and couldn’t bring myself to buy a 60k truck and feel like I am ruining it driving it, yet couldn’t stand the thought of voiding the warranty by removing those systems.
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  #13  
Old 08-08-2013, 01:30 AM
acasey acasey is offline
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I do a lot of driving usually 150-175 miles one way 4-5 days a week. I just want to increase my mileage and everyone tells me to install a tuner, but they aren't the ones having to deal with a warranty issue if it should arise. one person told me that the dealer has a tuner that would not void my warranty. I don't buy it. Thanks for all the info, I guess I'll run it stock until the warranty runs out.
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  #14  
Old 08-08-2013, 05:28 AM
Monster5601 Monster5601 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Designflaw View Post
No reason not to believe you - You may be smarter than the service manager of the largest dealership in the state
This isn't an issue of who is smarter, it is all about what the dealer's service bay tools are programmed to do. As a team member, I designed and coded engine controllers, primarily the abstraction layer between the application and the hardware. Also worked on various strategies and diagnostics which I still do today albeit on body electronics. I have first hand knowledge of the full diagnostic abilities of on-board electronics.

Dealers do not have access to every facet of an ECU, they only have access to what their tool allows them to have. The tool's programming is controlled by the manufacture. There are thousands of data identifiers (DIDs) that are not know to the dealer's service bay tools keeping them from seeing everything their is to see.

This is just an FYI, if you change the programming of your engine controller for example, damage the engine and try for a warranty claim, it is very likely your engine controller will be looked at which will identify the cause and reason. It is all about controlling warranty costs.

Lastly, and I do not have the answer to this question and it has always mystified me and my peers. How does a third party figure out how to re-fashed and where all the various calibration tables are. Simply because of the complexity of the programming, 100s of thousands of calibration points, seed and key lock security of several levels, does a third party figure this out? We can only guess the information is leaked because to reverse engineer this would take years.
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  #15  
Old 08-08-2013, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster5601 View Post
This isn't an issue of who is smarter, it is all about what the dealer's service bay tools are programmed to do. As a team member, I designed and coded engine controllers, primarily the abstraction layer between the application and the hardware. Also worked on various strategies and diagnostics which I still do today albeit on body electronics. I have first hand knowledge of the full diagnostic abilities of on-board electronics.

Dealers do not have access to every facet of an ECU, they only have access to what their tool allows them to have. The tool's programming is controlled by the manufacture. There are thousands of data identifiers (DIDs) that are not know to the dealer's service bay tools keeping them from seeing everything their is to see.

This is just an FYI, if you change the programming of your engine controller for example, damage the engine and try for a warranty claim, it is very likely your engine controller will be looked at which will identify the cause and reason. It is all about controlling warranty costs.

Lastly, and I do not have the answer to this question and it has always mystified me and my peers. How does a third party figure out how to re-fashed and where all the various calibration tables are. Simply because of the complexity of the programming, 100s of thousands of calibration points, seed and key lock security of several levels, does a third party figure this out? We can only guess the information is leaked because to reverse engineer this would take years.
I think LS1EB got me on this - This was back in 05, and I'm sure everything has changed and gotten smarter. I forget I had that truck for 8 years only 70,000 miles, and it never went to the dealership for anything other than a recall.

But like you said, the reverse engineering these days must be crazy. Leaking would probably be a big part. Digital copies of $200,000,000.00 blockbusters are on the streets before they are in the theaters!!
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