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  #21  
Old 08-31-2013, 07:59 PM
Driver72 Driver72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teflon74 View Post
you guys realize there is significant costs added to the regular maintenance of owning a diesel right? The mpg numbers may be close but your not figuring in anything for the maintenance and the cost of urea....let alone can the ED really be driven on short city runs and not have issues? Diesel's are meant to get hot when they are driven, short trips don't so anything good for them. Teflon
All true, but it's not that big of deal.
Urea refill is every 10k miles which I believe is about $60-70
Oil changes are a bit more expensive since it usually requires specialty oil that is around $9-10 a quart.
But most diesels don't need oil changes every 5-6k miles like gas engines. Diesels are usually 10k mile oil changes.


Again my beef is the power and torque.
Only 13 lbs ft of torque more than the Hemi
and a whooping 155 less hp
In a truck that weighs 102 pounds heavier than an equally equipped Hemi Ram 1500

Again, that equates to a 0-60 in the low 8's, which isn't terrible, but in this day and age isn't great for a truck.

The advantage pretty much comes in gas mileage and longevity.
It's also a big advantage if you live up in elevation as the turbo diesel won't suffer as much power loss as a NA engine.

If it had 20-25 more hp and 40-45 lbs ft more torque, it would be far more desirable to me, and probably many others.
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  #22  
Old 09-01-2013, 12:20 PM
mopar44o mopar44o is offline
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With production sechdualing coming up in October are we anticipating a Sept order date? Anyone think orders start first week of Sept?
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  #23  
Old 09-01-2013, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopar44o View Post
With production sechdualing coming up in October are we anticipating a Sept order date? Anyone think orders start first week of Sept?
That's a good question. I thought the same thing, but I think others have said ordering won't open until 10/8, the day production starts.

Either way, I want to drive the thing before I spend $50k+ on it. So if someone has info on them hitting dealer lots before Thanksgiving... I'd be a happy camper!
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  #24  
Old 09-01-2013, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by country-boy View Post
That's a good question. I thought the same thing, but I think others have said ordering won't open until 10/8, the day production starts.

Either way, I want to drive the thing before I spend $50k+ on it. So if someone has info on them hitting dealer lots before Thanksgiving... I'd be a happy camper!
Closes thing would be the cherokee at this point.
I know the ram is heavier....but it gives you an idea
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  #25  
Old 09-01-2013, 05:53 PM
crabjoe crabjoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teflon74 View Post
you guys realize there is significant costs added to the regular maintenance of owning a diesel right? The mpg numbers may be close but your not figuring in anything for the maintenance and the cost of urea....let alone can the ED really be driven on short city runs and not have issues? Diesel's are meant to get hot when they are driven, short trips don't so anything good for them. Teflon
1st we don't know what the maintenance schedule on the Eco-Diesel might be. 2nd, UREA costs aren't much. You can get it in bulk from most any truck stop at $2.70/gallon. When it's on sale, places like Autozone, it's $10 for 2.5 gallons...

If Urea usage is like it's on the Cummins, it'll use 1 gallon of Urea for every 50 gallons of fuel. If it's like the Duramax or Powerstroke, it'll use even less..

BTW, from what I'm reading on the Cummins forums, guys that went from having a Hemi to the Cummins in a Ram 2500 are saying they're MPG jumped from 5 to 8 mpg... That's a pretty big difference, even with the higher cost of fuel and the additional cost of Urea.
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  #26  
Old 09-01-2013, 08:37 PM
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You can get the 2014 Owners manual right off the Ramtrucks.com website. It shows the maintenance schedule for the ED (just found it today myself). Like most newer trucks, it's based on magic software inside the truck, and you never know when your service light will come on. It does say, not more than 10,000 miles or 1 year.

The DEF is an 8 gallon tank, and is supposed to last 10,000 miles with normal usage. They'd love to have us let the dealer refill when we bring in for oil change. But like crabjoe said, there are other cheaper ways to go.
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  #27  
Old 09-04-2013, 07:00 PM
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Default Diesel will never see that level of MPG

Quote:
Originally Posted by country-boy View Post
I did a fairly simple trade-off between the diesel and the gas. I started with average prices for gas & diesel, both local and national. Then used my personal average miles per year (about 18k). For the Hemi, I used 17 mpg, for the ED I used 28 mpg.
It shows breaking even on the cost of the ED in just over 2 years, and then saving $1300-$1400 a year after that. If I keep the truck 8 years (which is conservative for me), I'll save $7k-$8k. That's nothing to sneeze at!
The towing stats seem to be a wash vs. the Hemi. If the performance is anything even close, then I'm in.

People are reporting 18 to 19 mpg average with the Hemi. IMO, you will NEVER see 28 MPG with the diesel. It is mere fantasy to expect that level of efficiency from a truck. At most, 25 MPG is probably far more optimistic. for your projections. I am basing my opinion on my years of big diesel experience. Add in the very high maintanene running costs, and the allure of a diesel fades rapidly unless you are doing well over 100,000 miles a year. Otherwise, the diesel is just a novelty or a hobby.
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  #28  
Old 09-04-2013, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skytop View Post
People are reporting 18 to 19 mpg average with the Hemi. IMO, you will NEVER see 28 MPG with the diesel. It is mere fantasy to expect that level of efficiency from a truck. At most, 25 MPG is probably far more optimistic. for your projections. I am basing my opinion on my years of big diesel experience. Add in the very high maintanene running costs, and the allure of a diesel fades rapidly unless you are doing well over 100,000 miles a year. Otherwise, the diesel is just a novelty or a hobby.
Skytop, you're really down on the diesel. Give it a chance! I too have experience with Cummins diesels and a couple of Euro car versions (for shorter time periods). I already mentioned that a mag's initial test drive was getting better than 26 mpg combined with a Jeep GC in the first week. And it was improving as they went (as can be expected).
There are many factors involved here, and with newer technology, I personally think 28 is more than possible, especially for highway. Just look at the government standards the mfgs have to meet in a few years -- they better be getting close to 30 pretty soon if they ever plan to make it.

High maintenance costs? Sure, the individual costs may be higher, but the frequency is less. Inverse relationship, and it could easily balance out, or even tip favor to the diesel.

Why 100k miles? Using your 25 mpg figure vs. 17 for the hemi, I've already shown the savings is just about $1,000 a year! You pay off the cost of the diesel in less than 3 years, and the rest can be used for maintenance or toys.

In the end, of course, it's a personal choice. But I don't see how you can sneeze at the potential savings from the diesel, even if you low-ball the projected mileage.
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  #29  
Old 09-04-2013, 08:06 PM
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Yep, an oil change is more expensive, but the interval is 10,000 miles. From what info is available right now, It should cost less than 100 bucks maintenance for every 10k miles (oil change and DEF). That's not expensive. What's the oil change interval on the newer hemi's? I don't know myself.

The EPA also has a history of low balling the fuel economy ratings of new diesel powered cars. My cousin has a tdi jetta getting 46 combined (mostly hwy miles) and the car is only rated for 42 hwy. Now, I don't think it would be this drastic with a pickup truck, but I'll be expecting 25 or better on the highway with my truck. A lighter 2wd truck would do better.
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  #30  
Old 10-26-2013, 10:30 PM
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Well seems Edmunds has done an early full test of the
2014 Ram EcoDiesel.


0-60 in 9.2 seconds (I know Edmunds is usually a tiny bit slow compared to other mags, but they don't "inflate" their times by adjusting them).
For comparison Edmunds got the Pentastar V6 version doing a
0-60 in 7.8 seconds.

And it tows less than the Hemi.

In their 100 mile highway loop test with the Ram EcoDiesel they got
26.1 mpg but in combined driving they got 23.something

So, basically EXACTLY as I said....the 3.0 EcoDiesel is passable in the Grand Cherokee, but put it in the bigger, heavier Ram and it's about 25 hp and 50 lbs-ft TQ short of what it really needs.

Though Diesels have great low end torque, this truck is too heavy to too little power.
Put just 500-600 lbs load in it, or just towing an empty trailer and you'll have Toyota Prius's accelerating faster than you.

Try towing a 3000 lbs trailer up a hill and Semi's may be passing you.

And for only 5-6 mpg better average gas mileage over the Hemi, plus the fact the entry cost is $2,850 more and diesel is more expensive (currently where I live about .55 a gallon more) and it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me, unless you plan to keep it for 200k miles or really only plan on carrying very light loads.


Maybe they should make a slightly bored and stroked version that's 3.2 liters and makes
the 25 hp and 50 lbs-ft torque more from the factory.
If geared a tiny bit taller in the higher gears (6th through 8th) mpg should be exactly the same as the current one on the highway and actually may get better in city as the additional power means you wouldn't have to dip into the throttle as much to accelerate the same. Just sayin Dodge...hint hint
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