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Custom Dodge Ram Performance Mods - Engine - 5.7 HEMI V8 Discuss modifying your Dodge Ram with Performance Parts and Accessories!
Factory Spec: 5.7-liter HEMI® V8 engine - 390 horsepower, 407 lb-ft of torque.


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  #11  
Old 10-12-2013, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CdnoilRAM View Post
However, the Vararam does the best of most CAI's that I've seen/worked with of supplying the closest to ambient temperatures. Where it falls flat on its face and is an abject failure as an intake, is its inability to increase your intake flow velocity like a proper short ram intake does.
Can you elaborate on this a bit? What is or makes up a proper short ram intake? When you say intake flow velocity is this manifold or within the filter and tube?

Thanks.
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  #12  
Old 10-12-2013, 09:28 PM
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The best short ram intake you can get is one that draws from a fresh air source, by design accelerates the air flow along its length and resists thermal absorbtion into the air flow. The best short ram intake ever made for the hemi engine is the Legmaker 'Hammer' intake or the old BFI for the trucks.

So, talking about flow velocity: Because of the 'keg style' intake manifold we have, the higher the intake velocity you have entering through the throttle body, the more air you can move into the combustion chambers in the given open intake valve period. The intake manifold takes care of flow acceleration with its active short/long runner settings, but you want to get as much air flowing into the intake manifold as possible.

Since a N/A engine generates vacuum, this is how it moves air into the combustion chamber, by creating a pressure differential between the cylinders and intake manifold. The intake manifold must replenish its volume regularly and it does this through an intake, and is throttled by the throttle body. The speed at which the manifold replenishes its volume determines its efficiency. An ideal intake tube design reduces the flow restrictions, surface drag, and allows for laminar air compression along its length.

An ideal intake will have a large opening to atmosphere, preferably with no intake restriction (not practical since we want filtration as well), gently reduces its diameter through a cone shape that will allow for the compression of the air flow, which increases velocity of the flow, and made of an internal surface that reduces the effect of the no-slip condition. Smooth surfaces are not ideal, a contoured surface that reduces the detachment and shear away speeds is best.

Most Cold Air Intakes are just that... they route air from outside the engine bay through a tube to the throttle body. As stated in previous posts, the Vararam does this very well, but it doesn't do anything for the flow velocity as there is no runner length to increase the intake velocity. It does have a much larger reservoir capacity compared to most cone filters, but the tiny hole it has to move air through doesn't impress me at all.
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  #13  
Old 10-12-2013, 11:09 PM
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Thanks for taking the time to provide a detailed explanation.
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  #14  
Old 10-13-2013, 11:42 PM
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" a contoured surface that reduces the detachment and shear away speeds is best"

Detachment and shear away? What the?
How about laminar or turbulent flow. That's a bit more applicable. All an internal contoured surface will do is create drag. You want as smooth as possible of an internal surface you can get.
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  #15  
Old 10-14-2013, 06:08 PM
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Don't try to debate the almighty CDRam. He is right on this forum, no matter how wrong. I have tried calling him out on a large science-fiction post he authored, posing as an authorative factual tutorial on intakes.
I got no response on my most basic factual challenge.
All I get now is an occasional "he's an aeronautical engineer", from one of his his servile supporters.
Count me out as one of the sheep.
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  #16  
Old 10-14-2013, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2013Ram View Post
" a contoured surface that reduces the detachment and shear away speeds is best"

Detachment and shear away? What the?
How about laminar or turbulent flow. That's a bit more applicable. All an internal contoured surface will do is create drag. You want as smooth as possible of an internal surface you can get.
A properly designed internally contoured surface will create vortex trains that keep the flow as close to the surface for short lengths of pipe; however, over lengths greater than 4 times the diameter you start having turbulent surface separation in constant diameter tubes. It's a more noticeable effect on curved internal surface where 'dimpling' the inner curvature holds flow better along the inner surface and allows for higher flow speed before it detaches from the surface. By keeping the flow plastered to the inner curved surface you don't have separation, and separation causes turbulence... keeping the flow more laminar.

There has been several performance head manufacturers that have been experimenting with 'dimple porting' heads for this very reason.
http://www.rottlermfg.com/five-axis-....php?model=P69 and check out the images section for an example. What they've done is overkill in my mind, but inner surface dimpling does show some promise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-Stripe View Post
Don't try to debate the almighty CDRam. He is right on this forum, no matter how wrong. I have tried calling him out on a large science-fiction post he authored, posing as an authorative factual tutorial on intakes.
I got no response on my most basic factual challenge.
All I get now is an occasional "he's an aeronautical engineer", from one of his his servile supporters.
Count me out as one of the sheep.
If you're talking about the throttle body thread, I haven't check in on that for a long time because I was getting too much grief from customers with and the occasional manufacturer of ported throttle bodies that had the impression I was calling their products crap. Hence why I wouldn't have commented.

And it's aerospace engineer, not aeronautical, my specialty was systems, structures, and vehicle design. I have been consulted by a couple of ported throttle body manufactures over port profiles designs and ideas, so I think I have a decent standing in the community. Granted, I haven't been employed as an engineer since '07, but I have kept up on some topics that still interest me.

And looking back at your last post in that thread, I don't know where I pulled 2700rpm from, all I can think is I pulled the number from one of my diesel dynos by accident, shit happens, all I can do is apologize. I'm glad that out of all that info you pulled a mistake, I wish I could go back and edit it, but it can't happen and I really don't care that much about it as it served its purpose when every company and their dog was coming with ported TBs and I was getting 5-7 emails/PMs daily all asking what size they need for their current level of mods.
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  #17  
Old 10-14-2013, 11:48 PM
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So what do I need for my current level of mods, oh almighty?
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  #18  
Old 10-15-2013, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GasHole View Post
For those considering a new 'cold air' intake for their truck and possibly the Vararam, or those who already have one and are wondering if it is really doing what it is supposed to....
I am probably one of the biggest skeptics when it comes to anything modding, performance, etc.. I almost always take the path less traveled and don't submit to what the 'crowd' is doing. Same thing when I first looked into an intake for my new 2013 Sport. I looked at the reviews, looked at the data available, read all these posts....but who really knew? For all I know, the posts could be written by folks who work for Vararam, right? Well, I went ahead and got one, installed it, and after several miles of the truck 'relearning' the new air input, I actually did notice a harder pull under full throttle. But....was it really pulling in colder air, or was it just my imagination?
Well, here is something I found interesting just recently as the mornings have gotten cooler: when I go out to start my truck in the morning leaving for or returning from work, there is now usually a thin film of moisture (dew) across the entire hood and roof, right? Just like yours, too. As I leave, and eventually get several miles down the road on my trip, that film of dew will eventually always 'burn off' of the entire hood from the heat that the engine directly beneath it is generating.......all except an almost perfectly traced area directly above the semi-square shaped area where the Vararam unit sits! I have noticed this every morning now, and even by the time I arrive at my destination some 35 miles and about 45 minutes later, that same thin film of condensation is almost entirely intact directly above the Vararam. Now, I am no scientist, but common sense would tell you that the area where that moisture has stayed is still that much relatively cooler than the rest of the hood.....meaning to me, that the Vararam really is drawing in truly 'colder' or 'cooler' air to the throttle body...
Just an observation. Pay attention to it, I am sure mine is no different than yours....same design, same truck basically. And it's mute testimony and kind of comforting that it was money well spent on something doing actually what it was supposed to. Let me know your thoughts/observations on this, too.
I agree 100% but some people have to find these things out for themselves. Considering the cost compared to performance, the mods are certainly not worth it. I consider it false advertising.
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  #19  
Old 10-15-2013, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CdnoilRAM View Post
A properly designed internally contoured surface will create vortex trains that keep the flow as close to the surface for short lengths of pipe; however, over lengths greater than 4 times the diameter you start having turbulent surface separation in constant diameter tubes. It's a more noticeable effect on curved internal surface where 'dimpling' the inner curvature holds flow better along the inner surface and allows for higher flow speed before it detaches from the surface. By keeping the flow plastered to the inner curved surface you don't have separation, and separation causes turbulence... keeping the flow more laminar.

There has been several performance head manufacturers that have been experimenting with 'dimple porting' heads for this very reason.
http://www.rottlermfg.com/five-axis-....php?model=P69 and check out the images section for an example. What they've done is overkill in my mind, but inner surface dimpling does show some promise.



If you're talking about the throttle body thread, I haven't check in on that for a long time because I was getting too much grief from customers with and the occasional manufacturer of ported throttle bodies that had the impression I was calling their products crap. Hence why I wouldn't have commented.

And it's aerospace engineer, not aeronautical, my specialty was systems, structures, and vehicle design. I have been consulted by a couple of ported throttle body manufactures over port profiles designs and ideas, so I think I have a decent standing in the community. Granted, I haven't been employed as an engineer since '07, but I have kept up on some topics that still interest me.

And looking back at your last post in that thread, I don't know where I pulled 2700rpm from, all I can think is I pulled the number from one of my diesel dynos by accident, shit happens, all I can do is apologize. I'm glad that out of all that info you pulled a mistake, I wish I could go back and edit it, but it can't happen and I really don't care that much about it as it served its purpose when every company and their dog was coming with ported TBs and I was getting 5-7 emails/PMs daily all asking what size they need for their current level of mods.
In regards to port texture and flow, slick racing tires should support CdnoilRAMS explanation.
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  #20  
Old 10-15-2013, 08:45 AM
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Are the new generation of plastic intake manifolds a step in the wrong direction in regards to increasing flow turbulence due to their internal smooth finishes.
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