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  #41  
Old 01-14-2014, 07:15 PM
pitch1 pitch1 is offline
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My only reservation is that I would need to keep some kind of warranty in effect for as long as I owned the truck.
Paying for diesel repairs is a pretty steep climb. Injecters, turbine , fuel pump are all going to cost better than a grand to fix.
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  #42  
Old 01-19-2014, 03:46 PM
wrek wrek is offline
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Default Bogus Ram Build Pricing

Quote:
Originally Posted by finn5033 View Post
Not sure where your getting that from? You can go on Ram's website and build and price one. You can get a nicely optioned crew cab big horn ecodiesel for $45k. While that is still spendy its in line with chevy, or Ford 1/2 ton crew cab trucks. I believe 55k is the highest price possible for the top of the line fully loaded model with the ecodiesel
Hi,
I am new to this forum. I have been pricing out Ram and Ford Diesel trucks, and I came across an issue with the Ram truck build website.

Every truck I built showed an MSRP and an "Estimated Selling Price" on the summary page.

The build summary also listed a bunch of hypothetical nonsense such as an $8250 down payment, 1.99% financing, and even though the math worked out to the MSRP, it appeared to be nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

I have my financing in place, so the down payment and financing rate did not apply, so it appeared to be nothing more than a misleading, diversion from the true number needed in order to buy the truck, which was the "Estimated Selling Price", (ESP) listed at the bottom of the summary.

(The ESP appeared to me about $9k lower than the MSRP, which makes sense considering the MSRP is padded. One would think that after genuine discounts (NOT REBATES) the average ESP should be lower, to reflect True Market Value.

Well, I forwarded the build summary to several dealers here in PA, and every single one of them showed MSRP at least $4000 higher than the Ram build page, and ALL showed any discounts to include the $3000 Customer Cash and Ram Financing rebates.

I had one dealer email me a list of 17 rebates, of which 98% of people will not qualify for. These dealers still advertise the combination of all of those rebates as the "Discounted Price" with the disclaimer "Not all customers will qualify".

Customer Cash Rebates do not belong to the dealer, and have no place in the dealer's advertised discounts, negotiation process or ESP. That rebate comes from the manufacturer to me, and I can use it for whatever I want, yet every dealer automatically adds my customer cash directly into their "discounted" price, in order to scam me into paying full MSRP, with no real discounts. Other rebates, such as financing rebate, loyalty rebates etc. should also be added AFTER the selling price is negotiated.

Not a single dealer would honor the Ram build ESP or the MSRP. They also said they reviewed the build summary I emailed them, and because the Math added up to the MSRP, it MUST mean that the MSRP is the selling price, and the 9K lower ESP really means "after down payment and rebates are applied". That's a good one!

I then told the dealers that if that is the case, then it must also mean that I automatically receive the 1.99 financing rate for 72 months. But more importantly, that ESP actually means MSRP, which is completely false. Regardless, why were the dealers at least $4K higher?

I contacted Ram, and explained the situation, and Ram told me that dealers are not required to adhere to Ram build prices, and "Dealers set prices, not Ram, because that is illegal".

I questioned that comment by asking why car sales are based on MSRP, which means "Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price", NOT DSRP, "Dealer Suggested Retail Price". Ram has not replied so far.

Needless to say, with the bogus MSRP mark ups, fake invoices, and other questionable dealer practices, I am quickly getting a bad feeling about wanting to invest $45-50K in a Ram truck.

The only thing that keeps me looking is the realization that Ford dealers are exactly the same.

Last edited by wrek; 01-19-2014 at 03:54 PM. Reason: typo
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  #43  
Old 01-20-2014, 03:28 PM
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I'd just like to add there is no vehicle made that will tow 10,000 lbs and get 27 mpg. Its just not going to happen unless the entire trip was downhill with a 40 mph tail wind.
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  #44  
Old 01-20-2014, 04:29 PM
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My dealership called me the other day, my '09 was in for regular service & i wanted my brake fluid flushed & i needed to have the 5 year inspection done, they also did the Pinion Nut Recall

The Lady that i spoke to, wanted me to know that i should bypass the Showroom Sales force & use the V.I.P. office if i was considering a new purchase.
If i was in the market, i would use the Fleet/Internet Sales Office & work the Dodge Dealerships against each other.
I would be seriously considering a Factory Order Ram 1500 QC diesel

My Ram has over 100,000 miles on it
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  #45  
Old 01-20-2014, 07:15 PM
huntergreen huntergreen is offline
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go for 200000 miles.
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  #46  
Old 01-20-2014, 09:03 PM
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finn5033 finn5033 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrek View Post
Hi,
I am new to this forum. I have been pricing out Ram and Ford Diesel trucks, and I came across an issue with the Ram truck build website.

Every truck I built showed an MSRP and an "Estimated Selling Price" on the summary page.

The build summary also listed a bunch of hypothetical nonsense such as an $8250 down payment, 1.99% financing, and even though the math worked out to the MSRP, it appeared to be nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

I have my financing in place, so the down payment and financing rate did not apply, so it appeared to be nothing more than a misleading, diversion from the true number needed in order to buy the truck, which was the "Estimated Selling Price", (ESP) listed at the bottom of the summary.

(The ESP appeared to me about $9k lower than the MSRP, which makes sense considering the MSRP is padded. One would think that after genuine discounts (NOT REBATES) the average ESP should be lower, to reflect True Market Value.

Well, I forwarded the build summary to several dealers here in PA, and every single one of them showed MSRP at least $4000 higher than the Ram build page, and ALL showed any discounts to include the $3000 Customer Cash and Ram Financing rebates.

I had one dealer email me a list of 17 rebates, of which 98% of people will not qualify for. These dealers still advertise the combination of all of those rebates as the "Discounted Price" with the disclaimer "Not all customers will qualify".

Customer Cash Rebates do not belong to the dealer, and have no place in the dealer's advertised discounts, negotiation process or ESP. That rebate comes from the manufacturer to me, and I can use it for whatever I want, yet every dealer automatically adds my customer cash directly into their "discounted" price, in order to scam me into paying full MSRP, with no real discounts. Other rebates, such as financing rebate, loyalty rebates etc. should also be added AFTER the selling price is negotiated.

Not a single dealer would honor the Ram build ESP or the MSRP. They also said they reviewed the build summary I emailed them, and because the Math added up to the MSRP, it MUST mean that the MSRP is the selling price, and the 9K lower ESP really means "after down payment and rebates are applied". That's a good one!

I then told the dealers that if that is the case, then it must also mean that I automatically receive the 1.99 financing rate for 72 months. But more importantly, that ESP actually means MSRP, which is completely false. Regardless, why were the dealers at least $4K higher?

I contacted Ram, and explained the situation, and Ram told me that dealers are not required to adhere to Ram build prices, and "Dealers set prices, not Ram, because that is illegal".

I questioned that comment by asking why car sales are based on MSRP, which means "Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price", NOT DSRP, "Dealer Suggested Retail Price". Ram has not replied so far.

Needless to say, with the bogus MSRP mark ups, fake invoices, and other questionable dealer practices, I am quickly getting a bad feeling about wanting to invest $45-50K in a Ram truck.

The only thing that keeps me looking is the realization that Ford dealers are exactly the same.
I ordered a truck New Year's Eve that I did a build and price on the Ram site. I know the site has issues but my build was within a couple hundred dollars to the dealers build.
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  #47  
Old 01-21-2014, 10:56 AM
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Sod Farmer Sod Farmer is offline
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I considered the Eco Diesel also. The extra mileage looks very attractive, but the bottom line when it comes to fuel economy is how much does it cost to get where you are going. If diesel costs $1.00/gal. more than gas, with the current gas price at about $3.00/gallon, then diesel costs about 33% more than gas. Current production 5.7 hemi is rated at 21mpg hwy. To break even, the Eco diesel would have to get 33% better mileage than the Hemi, or 28mpg. I haven't found where the official EPA mileage estimates have been determined for the Eco diesel yet. If the EPA estimate is 29mpg or better, the Eco diesel would be cheaper to drive. I bought the Hemi.
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  #48  
Old 01-21-2014, 11:32 AM
huntergreen huntergreen is offline
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op, there is the sticker price and then the negotiated price.
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  #49  
Old 01-21-2014, 12:07 PM
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Sod Farmer, I did the same number crunching. Being in MN diesel is always .90cents to $1.00 more than gas. My first concern is mpg so I can use it as a daily driver it just didn't make sense. I figured if I average 20 with the V6 I would have to average 27-28 with the diesel to break even on gas but then there is the $4,500 extra cost for the diesel over the V6 that I will never get back. I don't do a lot of towing so the V6 became the logical choice for me. If I had a big 5th wheel or travel trailer I would have went for the diesel
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  #50  
Old 01-21-2014, 08:47 PM
Lazarus Truck Lazarus Truck is offline
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Lots of opinions here, every situation is different. I use a truck for hauling a car every so often, load of fire-wood, to work in inclement weather. I live in the boonies, and my 55 mile commute to work involves 50 miles with 2 stoplights. So I think the eco-d may be ideal for me since I do NO around-town driving. Everything rural highway at 50-70 mph. Cant wait!
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