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  #11  
Old 01-30-2014, 05:45 PM
Stuball Stuball is offline
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I have a very good reason for not waiting...I'm an old man.
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  #12  
Old 01-30-2014, 06:56 PM
thebluegoat thebluegoat is offline
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For someone like me that spends 11k a year in fuel I may be able to have payback in less than 3 years I'd think. Did the math the other night. Average 50 000 kms a year, fuel averaging 1.20 a litre, averaging 16 mpg over the last three years I've owned the truck.
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  #13  
Old 01-30-2014, 09:05 PM
mopar44o mopar44o is offline
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Mine qualified for the rebates...who told u it doesn't?
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  #14  
Old 01-30-2014, 09:55 PM
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chris15005 chris15005 is offline
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These motors have been around for awhile they used to go in UPS trucks. One of the guys i work with used to work at a Detroit Diesel shop and told me @ 25 - 30K miles the engines were needing major repairs. If the VM engine still had the Borg Warner injection pump to stay far away they were not good and very expensive to replace.

Maybe UPS was tough on stuff or they had a bad batch but with the DPF filter, the high up charge and all the emissions stuff that keeps me form buying one let alone what i have been told. I'm glad i got my '14 Outdoorsman with the Hemi and 3.92 it tows my 6K camper way better than my '12 with 3.55 did.
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  #15  
Old 01-30-2014, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris15005 View Post
These motors have been around for awhile they used to go in UPS trucks. One of the guys i work with used to work at a Detroit Diesel shop and told me @ 25 - 30K miles the engines were needing major repairs. If the VM engine still had the Borg Warner injection pump to stay far away they were not good and very expensive to replace.
Unless it's changed from the export version, it's a VM designed, Bosch manufactured pump. I am not sure if Honeywell or Garrett makes the turbo system. I am still getting all the details as there were some changes for the L630, the version the US gets versus the A630, the rest of the world gets.

I am not trying to shoot down all the arguments I am just trying to ensure the correct information is out there. Diesel definitely isn't for everyone or every situation.
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  #16  
Old 01-30-2014, 11:47 PM
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Blackhawk13 Blackhawk13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian.bacon View Post
1. i think the tow ratings are on par with the hemi, not with the V6, check again.
2. I heard that so many times, but no actual facts, real documentation. It seems to work on with the rest of the world; i'm not buying that.
3. This is not a new engine, it has been in production for 3 years or so now, it is just new in the trucks. A well put together engine as far as I read.
4. Higher oil price, however, much longer usage out of it (I think ~15000miles or so) so the price will probably be even.
5. Payload is one of the downsides. Get the V6 or move to a bigger diesel. You cant have your cake and eat it too, at least not now.
6. It is a very new product, super hot in the market with high demand. Of course there are no rebates, come on. I am sure by Christmas time it will be in line with the other models. Do not forget the higher resale value and the longer engine life.

Not really on par. A 2014 Longhorn 4X4 6'4" Box with 3.92s and the HEMI tows 1400lbs more weight than its diesel counterpart.
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  #17  
Old 01-30-2014, 11:48 PM
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Blackhawk13 Blackhawk13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sackings19 View Post
I have had my mind set on getting a Ram 1500 crew cab for two years, and I have been waiting on the Ecodiesel for the last year. Based on all the reviews, and my test drive of a Grand Cherokee with the engine, I think it will be a very good option for light duty trucks.

With that said, I'm now second guessing my choice to wait for the Ecodiesel. Here are some of my concerns:

1. If you do mainly city driving new diesels with the DPF's are not ideal. If you don't get the engine hot enough for long enough the filters can become clogged until you go drive for 20 minutes.

2. The tow rating for the Ecodiesel and the Pentastar with 3.55 gears are almost identical. I know towing with the diesel will be much easier, but it makes me thing it would be worth waiting for an ED with 3.92's to get the most capability.

3. The inability to get a lifetime warranty on the Ecodiesel, and the unknown long term reliability of this engine combined with all of the expensive emissions related parts.

4. Special oil for the Ecodiesel. I owed a 2010 VW Jetta diesel and at that time the special spec oil was $8 a quart at Pepboys (the only local store that had the oil). The same oil, which is needed for the Ecodiesel, is now $12 at Pepboys. Although I have found it online at Amazon for about $7 a quart, the fact that it costs so much and is hard to find is annoying. The ED takes 8 quarts, so at $12 a quart that is about $100 just for oil. It just seems the stores stick it to you whenever the word diesel is involved. The oil filters are again, much more expensive. With the DEF fluid included you will could be looking at $150 for an oil change.

5. The added weight further reduces an already weak payload rating for crew cab pickups with the Rambox option. One of the things that sold me on the Ram was the Ramboxes. If I can't get an ED with Ramboxes and have a decent payload rating I will have to pass.

6. In addition to the $4,500 cost over the gas V6, will the ED not qualify for all rebates, further increasing the actual cost for the upgrade. No one at Ram knows or will say.

I wanted to bring up some of these issues with the ED so everyone can make an informed decision. Sometimes when something new comes out we all get caught up in the excitement and overlook things. I don't want to upset anyone, just further the discussion. I am addicted to this forum and really appreciate the information I have gathered so far from other users.
I concur with you.

I'm not trying to bash diesels at all but I just can't see why anyone would buy the EcoDiesel for the Ram 1500? I think Ram putting the EcoDiesel in the 1500 was a great idea but the numbers leave a lot to be desired. Here's an example of what I'm talking about because I was looking into it as well until the numbers came out.

For the purpose of this example, I'm looking at a 2014 Laramie Longhorn 6'4" Box 4X4 with 3.92 gears.

Payload:
HEMI = 1077lbs
ED = 859lbs

Towing:
HEMI = 9750lbs
ED = 8350lbs

Price:
HEMI = $Included in Longhorn as base engine
ED = $2850

Fuel Economy:
HEMI = 15/17/22
ED = Not published but used 21/23/28 based on article below:
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/...500-ecodiesel/

Break Even:
91.24 months or 7.60 years based on 15K miles a year, using 17 MPG for HEMI and 23 MPG for ED at $2.96/gal for Regular Unleaded and $3.43/gal for Diesel as of today in San Antonio. Most people (not all just most) don't keep their cars that long. I have ignored maintenance costs (which will favor the HEMI anyway even more so now that sparkplugs don't have to be changed until 100K vs. the previous 30K requirement) and other things and depending on your spread between regular and diesel it could be longer (some people have .60 to .80 differences between regular and diesel gas)

Lifetime Maxcare Warranty:
HEMI = YES
ED = NO

Will it tow "EASIER" than a HEMI, sure I will agree but the HEMI can tow it. I just don't truly see the benefit of this particular ED.
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  #18  
Old 01-31-2014, 08:27 AM
nailem nailem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawk13 View Post
I concur with you.

I'm not trying to bash diesels at all but I just can't see why anyone would buy the EcoDiesel for the Ram 1500? I think Ram putting the EcoDiesel in the 1500 was a great idea but the numbers leave a lot to be desired. Here's an example of what I'm talking about because I was looking into it as well until the numbers came out.

For the purpose of this example, I'm looking at a 2014 Laramie Longhorn 6'4" Box 4X4 with 3.92 gears.

Payload:
HEMI = 1077lbs
ED = 859lbs

Towing:
HEMI = 9750lbs
ED = 8350lbs

Price:
HEMI = $Included in Longhorn as base engine
ED = $2850

Fuel Economy:
HEMI = 15/17/22
ED = Not published but used 21/23/28 based on article below:
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/...500-ecodiesel/

Break Even:
91.24 months or 7.60 years based on 15K miles a year, using 17 MPG for HEMI and 23 MPG for ED at $2.96/gal for Regular Unleaded and $3.43/gal for Diesel as of today in San Antonio. Most people (not all just most) don't keep their cars that long. I have ignored maintenance costs (which will favor the HEMI anyway even more so now that sparkplugs don't have to be changed until 100K vs. the previous 30K requirement) and other things and depending on your spread between regular and diesel it could be longer (some people have .60 to .80 differences between regular and diesel gas)

Lifetime Maxcare Warranty:
HEMI = YES
ED = NO

Will it tow "EASIER" than a HEMI, sure I will agree but the HEMI can tow it. I just don't truly see the benefit of this particular ED.
your numbers are a little off. most people dont average 17 with the hemi more like 15. Now if you add in some towing (if your looking at a diesel you probably tow) the hemi will be around 10 and the ED will be around 20. I tow about 3000-5000 miles a year. using yor price for fule the hemi will return $.296 per mile and the ED $.171 per mile at 4000 miles a year hemi will cost $1,184 in towing fuel ED will cost $684 thats $500 difference just in towing.
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  #19  
Old 01-31-2014, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailem View Post
your numbers are a little off. most people dont average 17 with the hemi more like 15. Now if you add in some towing (if your looking at a diesel you probably tow) the hemi will be around 10 and the ED will be around 20. I tow about 3000-5000 miles a year. using yor price for fule the hemi will return $.296 per mile and the ED $.171 per mile at 4000 miles a year hemi will cost $1,184 in towing fuel ED will cost $684 thats $500 difference just in towing.
You have to have an apples to apples comparison and in order to do that, you have to use the EPA numbers (which we don't have yet on the ED which is why I used numbers seen on test drive articles). There are WAY too many variables on driving habits. You say people are seeing 15 and I disagree. I average about 17.4 on my 2009 Laramie 4X2 HEMI with 3.92s and it's rated for 16 average so you can't just use numbers you 'think' people are getting or what they say. In order to do the best calculation, we gotta use EPA sticker numbers which is what I did for the HEMI. I actually think I was being generous on the ED. What I don't include though is the additional maintenance costs for the ED (more expensive oil, DEF, etc.). I understand the benefits of the Cummins for towing but not the ED....the numbers just aren't there. I think Ram really disappointed with this offering after getting everyone excited about the ED but we'll see if they tweak it as time goes on in the next several years.
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  #20  
Old 01-31-2014, 10:29 AM
nailem nailem is offline
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didnt see you where using 4x2 numbers. i was looking at 4x4, most if not all people im my area drive 4x4. if you look at fuely.com or what people post i think 15mpg is fairly accurate hemi 4x4 number.
i would rather use real world numbers not sticker numbers. i realize there are no real world numbers for the ED yet just test numbers and GC numbers.
my diesel does not cost more to maintain than its gas counterpart, the only difference with this new one will be urea and that should equate to about $30yr.
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