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  #21  
Old 03-16-2011, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by HEMILANCER View Post
long term becomes the issue when boosting a small motor to do the job that big motors do easily i dont care what brand it is. How inconvenient is it when 1 of your 2 turbo's blows a seal, fills your exhaust and precious catalytic converter with oil, and strands your payload? then look at the repair bill.
Oh brother.. This is not the first turbo, or even twin turbo that has been on a mass produced engine.. Also, what is long term? 100K, 200K miles? Really, who hangs on to one vehicle that long? Average ownership for vehicles is 3-5 years during this time everything is under warranty. Horror stories and far reaches like this have no merit or proof.
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  #22  
Old 03-17-2011, 12:00 AM
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Per a friend of mine who is a GM for Chrysler said that during their last regional meeting each truck was equipped with the lowest final gear ratio that was available for the specific trucks. You also have to consider the ratio's in the transmission as well and how well they are mated to the power band of the engine. Also, per his words, the new Ford makes 90+% of its TQ between 1700 and 2200 rpm, which also comes into play and "They got their asses handed to them".

It is a good platform and the latest thing out. Now that the others have something to shoot for, it should only get better.
I wasn't going to ask question #2 (trans ratios) until I got an answer for question 1. After all, if they can't answer #1, I could never expect them to answer anything that required thought. When they say the gears were the lowest final ration that was available for the specific truck, that is a cop out answer that I am not willing to accept. I want them to 'spit it out', tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth......with specs.

Until I have received the necessary technical/specification information, I consider the 'test' nothing more than a sales brochure. If they want to sell this new engine to me, they will have to provide 'ME' the informed buyer with the information I request.

BTW - The Eco-boost engine really intrigues me. I really do want to know more. Guess my first race with one will answer a few questions
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  #23  
Old 03-17-2011, 12:08 AM
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Any manufacturers would do the same, it is new, they did tests although they were independent. If truck A had 3.73 ratio and B had 3.55 ratio, with everything being equal, out of the hole, A would get the jump. From a punch or a roll the outcome could and would be different. I have 3.92's in my 04 Ram, friend of mine has 3.55's in his 06. I can pull him from 0-40 ish but after that there is no gain and from a 60 punch, there is hardly any difference.

With these tests there are too many variables and differences on power, delivery, gearing, etc.. I, like you, am also intrigued about it. At this point, early in production it appears to be a solid option.
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  #24  
Old 03-17-2011, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Oh brother.. This is not the first turbo, or even twin turbo that has been on a mass produced engine.. Also, what is long term? 100K, 200K miles? Really, who hangs on to one vehicle that long? Average ownership for vehicles is 3-5 years during this time everything is under warranty. Horror stories and far reaches like this have no merit or proof.
It is in fact the first turbo setup enlisted for duty as a work truck made to tow the loads of trucks with greater power. also i dont know what is long term? i guess if it lasts 30k in your book. Where i live people like to keep a vehicle, i have a lifetime powertrain warranty what is long term on that? i work on fleet vehicles periodically that are driven by someone other than the owner and always over loaded. what do you think is gonna happen if they use a twin turbo v6?
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  #25  
Old 03-17-2011, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by HEMILANCER View Post
It is in fact the first turbo setup enlisted for duty as a work truck made to tow the loads of trucks with greater power. also i dont know what is long term? i guess if it lasts 30k in your book. Where i live people like to keep a vehicle, i have a lifetime powertrain warranty what is long term on that? i work on fleet vehicles periodically that are driven by someone other than the owner and always over loaded. what do you think is gonna happen if they use a twin turbo v6?
Um, ever seen a turbo diesel? Technology is the same, they use twin on a smaller displacement engine, versus using a single on a higher displacement vehicle. By doing this, they are meeting requirements and regulations that are being set forth by CARB and standards and our federal Government. Laws and regs change all the time, why not use technology in your favor to achieve the same goals?

Long term is relative, you're making assumptions on things that have no merit or background. Every platform has it's issues and nothing is perfect. Putting twin turbos on an engine is not in chartered territory, it is just different because it is now an option in a half ton vehicle. It just happens to be from another brand, which gets everyone's feathers ruffled. If this was Dodge, then it would be the best thing since sliced bread.
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  #26  
Old 03-17-2011, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by HEMILANCER View Post
It is in fact the first turbo setup enlisted for duty as a work truck made to tow the loads of trucks with greater power. also i dont know what is long term? i guess if it lasts 30k in your book. Where i live people like to keep a vehicle, i have a lifetime powertrain warranty what is long term on that? i work on fleet vehicles periodically that are driven by someone other than the owner and always over loaded. what do you think is gonna happen if they use a twin turbo v6?
I really don't think the Turbo is an issue as they were a few decades ago. They have improved immensely. And with the way new engines are built....boy I sure wish this technology was available when I was younger.

As for the fleet vehicles, it wouldn't surprise me a bit, if they outlasted the 'babied' personally owned ones. I think Ford has something with this new engine.....but I would really like to see how it stands up to the Hemi, when equipped 'Apple for Apple'.
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  #27  
Old 03-17-2011, 12:58 AM
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ok dodge, lets see the twin turbo v8 ? lol
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  #28  
Old 03-17-2011, 01:08 AM
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I considered the EcoBoost. Mileage is good, I like the idea of the low end torque (fun on the street!)...but damn that thing is ugly!

In regards to durability; BMW, Mercedes, ever heard of them? They've both had no issue with twin turbo vehicles going 200k+ miles. If it's done right, a turbocharged engine isn't going to be much worse than a n/a engine. There is more parts to break, so better odds. But, just because it is turbocharged doesn't mean it isn't dependable.

I bought a Hemi yesterday, for what it's worth.

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  #29  
Old 03-17-2011, 09:53 AM
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The biggest problem for Ford will be getting past bias towards a turbo V6 in a truck regardless of the numbers. My dad is a Ford fanatic and has no problem with superchargers, but refuses to consider turbos as a viable technology. Even when I explain SC is parasitic and TC is recovered energy he doesn't get it. I think the overall tech is mature enough to support this application. The question is, did Ford get it right in their development? Personally, I would wait a year or two if I was going to buy one. After seeing the 6.0 powerstroke and 4.0 SOHC conversion fiascoes I want to be sure they have the kinks out of the new engine.
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  #30  
Old 03-17-2011, 11:44 AM
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It was done by an independent company, against Dodge and Chevy. Granted that the GM only had the 5.3 and it is a dog, they also needed to add the Toyota and the new GMC's which are 400+ hp. It is a solid platform and is making the others scratch their heads.. You have to give credit where it is due, but unfortunately there are brand loyal brand beaters out there that don't like the facts.

Competition is good and is the best thing for all, as if we did not have that, there would not be any incentive for any company to continue to build something better.

The new 5.0, Ecoboost and the 4.2 in the Ford Raptor are setting the latest standards, we will see if anyone else will step up to the plate to match it.

Im not denying the engine performed spectacularly, but independent company or not, i ask the questions how were the trucks set up, why choose that distance? ( it was very obvious in the video that the ram was catching up on the hill climb). How many other tests were run that we didnt see. Im not a dodge homer by far, you had to drag me into the dealer to buy this truck, and im a big fan of the F150's...but quit drinking the kool aid here, give us full disclosure of the truck setups. The independent company im sure was paid by ford so making their clients happy was a priority.
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