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  #21  
Old 11-15-2011, 01:54 PM
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I'd buy a tuner if I could remap the gear change schedules. From what I've read the Supertuner one only allows torque management adjustments and shift timing on the stock trans programming, no gear selection changes.
hpc3: I'm not sure if this is exactly what you're looking for, but the superchips advanced transmission tuning allows you to make your own shift schedules. I'm not sure if you gain torque converter clutch lockup control or not, but many on the superchips forums use it and love it for towing, you may want to look into it. It's an additional fee(like $50) on top of the tuner itself, but everyone I know that bought it loves it. I have yet to buy it and don't know that I will as I rarely tow and the preprogrammed shift schedule in the tuner is fine by me.

EDIT: also, some members on this forum have commented on it, I believe user Drake has it, and maybe ORT, and others...?
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  #22  
Old 11-15-2011, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LU229 View Post
So which is it...?!?!?! (can we say FLIP FLOP FLIP FLOP FLIP FLOP...!!!)
One paragraph you say no, then in next paragraph you say it improves fuel economy.

And does this new replacement torque converter FIX the buzzing in the gas pedal and in the steering wheel AND the in the drivers seat too...?

And as for for your "smart aleck" comment towards me personally... (and i`m NOT laughing at all...!)
Let me just say that i am NOT impressed at all to take my BRAND NEW TRUCK into a dealership full of ignorant idiots that THINK they know what they`re doing, and have them rip out my transmission out of MY BRAND NEW TRUCK, then re-install it with air guns, not torqueing a single bolt properly with a torque wrench, NOT putting things back in their correct position, really piss`s me off. This will lead to failure down the road later...!!! If you think for one friggin minute that these idiots follow service manual procedure`s, when re-installing these transmissions, i question YOUR intelligence. And my last comment to you, i will give it some thought before buying another dodge product in the future. Like ALOT of other people, i paid $45,000.00 for this truck, and i`m not impressed for what i paid, for all the issues it has, as well as ALL the issues with the dodge dealerships in the past. Maybe i`ve been to loyal of a dodge guy for too long, maybe its time for a change.

And for you Sean, (snrusnak) (re: "someone with the company")
i`m not even going to comment on what you said, its obvious what your saying and how you said it.
Let's keep the conversation civil gentlemen. Healthy discussion/debate are fine, we're not all going to agree all the time, but deliberate, antagonizing posts that are inflammatory just for the sake of argument contribute nothing to the knowledge base and won't be tolerated. We're all here to learn and help where we can.

- Cajun
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  #23  
Old 11-15-2011, 04:42 PM
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Let's keep it civil, gentlemen.

I will point out that the service T/C brought forth to replace 2010 & 2011's with the noise issue is an update to the original design.

I believe what TransEngineer was trying to say (and it is implied but not clear in his post) is that the 2012 T/C is a new design, different from the 2010 & 2011 T/C's including the service T/C issued to fix the problem.

And while I understand the passion these issues can bring forth, I believe way more was read into the comments here than was actually being expressed.

Only one person in this thread has taken a direct attack on others here and it's the person who's complaining the loudest.

LU229 - You would be well advised to calm down a bit.
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  #24  
Old 11-15-2011, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by TransEngineer View Post
Yes, when I submitted that last post I was thinking perhaps he was complaining about the converter performance / stall torque ratio / durability problems, but after submitting it, it occured to me that he was probably referring to the noise issues.

I could be a smart aleck and say that yes, Dodge (or actually now, Ram) deliberately builds noisy torque converters so we can see whether customers are paying attention or not, and that we love to pay warranty claims to replace converters, but obviously that's not the case. The noise issue (we call it "warble") does not occur on all vehicles, and we've released a service torque converter that eliminates the noise for those who do have it.

The noise is caused by excessive lash between the turbine hub and turbine damper spline inside the converter. There is a small amount of tolerance on the spline teeth (for both parts), so the lash will vary from converter to converter. Many will have a small amount of lash, and therefore no noise. Others will have slightly more lash, and therefore will exhibit the noise. The noise is not a durability concern, but it is an annoyance for those who notice it. The replacement converters have a tighter turbine hub spline (which is actually an interference fit in some cases) which eliminates the noise. The turbine hub is the only part that changed, so replacing your converter will not improve performance or fuel economy (only the noise).

By the way, the new converter design introduced for 2012 MY fixes the noise issue and improves fuel economy, so that should help both of your concerns....
TransEngineer - thanks for this information. This should probably be a sticky on the board. I was under the impression that my converter wasn't locking up properly and was hampering fuel economy. Glad to hear it's not a durability or fuel economy issue, because I can reliably duplicate the warble. Thanks for the good info.
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  #25  
Old 11-15-2011, 05:18 PM
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TransEngineer - thanks for this information. This should probably be a sticky on the board. I was under the impression that my converter wasn't locking up properly and was hampering fuel economy. Glad to hear it's not a durability or fuel economy issue, because I can reliably duplicate the warble. Thanks for the good info.
That's a good idea. Maybe a mod should talk to him privately and ask if he'd be up for having a separate thread(stickied) dedicated to answering questions, or giving explanations for common problems or just for informational purposes. If he's willing to do so of course.
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  #26  
Old 11-17-2011, 07:42 PM
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aw shucks...look like LU229 has left us...
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  #27  
Old 11-18-2011, 12:26 PM
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^ LOL

I know this is slightly off topic, but I went to the dealer this morning to do my "ride along" to have my 3rd to 4th slipping issue that I've been having looked at. I am frustrated. I made an appointment then had to wait like 30 minutes, then they wouldn't let me drive, which I knew they wouldn't "be able to replicate the customer's issue", and that's exactly what happened. If I drove it I could have made it happen. The guy also did not know what I was talking about with the tool to plug in like transengineer suggested. I started to question his knowledge (and he was their "trans guy") as we started talking more and more about the truck and about tow/haul and 2nd prime and he said he didn't have a clue what I was talking about. He told me "can't fix it if it ain't broken", and told me I must be imagining things. Then told me if I want it fixed to abuse it and break it then he can fix it....great advice. He said the only thing he could think of was the TCC engaging/disengaging between gears, but I thought it didn't engage in between gears and under load. I thought it only engaged in overdrive gears at cruise. I'm just frustrated as he blew me off and I took a day off work to go do this. Transengineer, do you think it could simply just be the TCC? He also said to me "if there's no engine light there's no problem", but I'm sure what is happening in my truck is not normal, or intentional.
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  #28  
Old 11-18-2011, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by snrusnak View Post
^ LOL

I know this is slightly off topic, but I went to the dealer this morning to do my "ride along" to have my 3rd to 4th slipping issue that I've been having looked at. I am frustrated. I made an appointment then had to wait like 30 minutes, then they wouldn't let me drive, which I knew they wouldn't "be able to replicate the customer's issue", and that's exactly what happened. If I drove it I could have made it happen. The guy also did not know what I was talking about with the tool to plug in like transengineer suggested. I started to question his knowledge (and he was their "trans guy") as we started talking more and more about the truck and about tow/haul and 2nd prime and he said he didn't have a clue what I was talking about. He told me "can't fix it if it ain't broken", and told me I must be imagining things. Then told me if I want it fixed to abuse it and break it then he can fix it....great advice. He said the only thing he could think of was the TCC engaging/disengaging between gears, but I thought it didn't engage in between gears and under load. I thought it only engaged in overdrive gears at cruise. I'm just frustrated as he blew me off and I took a day off work to go do this. Transengineer, do you think it could simply just be the TCC? He also said to me "if there's no engine light there's no problem", but I'm sure what is happening in my truck is not normal, or intentional.
Yes, I think there's a good possibility you're just getting a 3-4 upshift followed by TCC engagement, but the only real way to confirm that is with a scan tool. There are aftermarket scan tools that can also read our transmission data (I've had another owner send me recordings made using a SnapOn scanner). So if you have a buddy who works at a shop and has access to a scan tool, maybe that would work for you.

The TCC doesn't just engage in overdrive gears. We try to engage it as much as possible (even in lower gears) since it benefits fuel economy. But there is a whole separate "shift pattern" (so to speak) that controls TCC engagement, and it depends on turbine speed, throttle opening, temperature, whether you're in Tow/Haul mode, etc. So there's no simple answer as to "when" your TCC should engage.

In any event, when the TCC engages, it's a 2-step process. First, it goes from unlocked (open converter) to partial lock. This reduces the converter slip from, say, 400 rpm down to about 60 rpm. The TCC will remain in partial lock for a brief period (1-2 seconds), and then transistion to full lockup (where the slip drops to zero).

I suspect you are feeling a 3-4 upshift, followed by TCC partial lock engagement, followed by TCC full lockup, over a period of perhaps 4-5 seconds. That would be normal. If this is the case, you will see engine speed drop (in steps) as you go through these events.

If you actually had a slipping clutch, you would probably notice some engine flare during the events (engine speed goes up and then comes back down). So if you are just seeing an extended time for the engine speed to finish its descent (with no slips or flares) then you are probably OK. I should note, however, that in some cases you WILL get "flare" during an upshift, if the TCC is locked before the shift, then unlocks just before the shift (giving you the "flare"), and then re-locks after the shift. This is why it's really helpful to have a scan tool so you can see what is really happening during the events. I can't predict if or when you might experience an "unlock, shift, re-lock" event - again, it depends on the vehicle package, throttle, speed, etc.

The PCM is very good at detecting clutch slippage within the transmission. It will usually detect slippage before you (as the driver) ever notice it. It will then set a ratio error DTC, although the CEL (aka MIL) may not light up right away. It will also put you into "logical limp-in" mode, in which the trans will start in 1st gear from a dead stop, and then upshift directly from 1st to 4th. It will remain in 4th until you stop (or slow way down) again. It will operate (in Drive) in 1st and 4th gears only, until you restart the engine. So if your trans is making normal upshifts, then it has NOT detected any significant clutch slippage. I think that's what your tech meant by "if the light's not lit, it's OK," although as I've noted that's not always technically accurate.

Now I can already hear some folks starting to yell, "Baloney! My trans wouldn't move at all, and it never set a fault!" So before anyone starts a post like that, let me explain:

The ratio error faults (such as P0731, Gear Ratio Error in 1st), are technically "in-gear" ratio faults. This means that, in order to set a ratio fault, the trans must first actually achieve the desired ratio, and THEN slip. So if you shift into Drive and get nothing (neutral), where the vehicle won't move, in some cases you will NOT set a P0731 fault because you never made it into 1st gear.

OK, I know that's probably more info than you needed, but I figure too much info is better than too little.....
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  #29  
Old 11-20-2011, 09:39 PM
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Thank you for the info transengineer, definitely would rather have too much info than not enough! lol. I don't believe I know anyone with a scantool, although I'm sure I can find someone. I'll keep an eye out and see if I can get a recording. Also, I retuned the truck with the superchips, and left the TM at stock, and I honeslty can hardly tell a difference. I can at times still feel the delay, or "falling on it's face", however it doesn't do it very bad at all. I think I found a setup I like, as not I'll prolong the life of the trans by keeping the TM at stock, but still get the performance gains from the tuner that I was after. It seems like with the tuner the shifts are faster, as in they have a shorter duration from start to finish. The guys at superchips did tell me that they changed the "shift delay" or something like that.

I appreciate all your help.
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  #30  
Old 12-08-2011, 12:01 AM
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Great thread... Got a question for TransE....

On my early model 09 1500 with the 4.7 the transmission seems to like to lock and unlock quite a bit at 25-40mph. RPM seems to move around a bit and the trans feels "confused"... but as I'm reading your previous post, since the trans is shifting through the gears correctly and not throwing codes, then its unlikely that there's a problem.

Is this "hunting" a normal thing?
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