DODGE RAM FORUM - Ram Forums and Owners Club! - Dodge Truck Forum

Go Back   DODGE RAM FORUM - Ram Forums and Owners Club! - Dodge Truck Forum > Dodge Ram Forum - Mod Zone - Custom Dodge Ram Mods - Dodge Ram Performance > Custom Dodge Ram Performance Mods - Engine - 5.2 Liter V8


Notices

Custom Dodge Ram Performance Mods - Engine - 5.2 Liter V8 Discuss modifying your Dodge Ram with Performance Parts and Accessories!


Latest Vendor News
AutoAnything
Addictive Desert Designs!
United Radio
Bayou Goat Mounts

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 12-31-2011, 02:00 PM
ramvan2500's Avatar
ramvan2500 ramvan2500 is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1,903
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 1995 Dodge Ram B2500 Van
Trim Level: SLT - 2500
Color: Deep Molten Pearl Coat, Silver, Grey
Engine: 1994-2001 318ci (5.2L) Magnum V8 220hp
Rep Power: 4
Rep:128
ramvan2500 will become famous soon enoughramvan2500 will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmikelrg View Post
Ramvan, thx for all the help I came across 3000$ and pretty much going to spend 1000$ to start with what should I do first....steps would b nice and it doesn't have to b all tranny stuff it can be engine mods to. Also I'm saving for a stroker kit that's what the rest of the 3000$ is going towards stroking my 318 to a 390 this is what the kit says it will stoke it to wats ur input on that? O and what brand and middle throttle body should I b looking at...I know this is allot of questions but u rly seem to know what ur talking about and seem very reliable and trustworth plus u answer my needs and concerns thx ramvan and others as well.
I don't mind the questions at all, I really enjoy helping others and discussion it really gets the imagination going.

Well for the throttle body their isn't much you can do because the vehicle is MPI and the timing if controlled by the ECM so you can change the TB all you want it's not going to make much difference BUT, you can port the TB which has been known to help with response, though the ECM controls the RPM's with the use of various sensors one of which is the TPS. If you look back on the 3.9L Magnum's many users would but a V8 TB on their manifold and it would be shown to increase RPM's a little only due to the improved air flow.

What you could do to the engine is change the intake manifold, some members on the forum have a liking for the Huges FXI I believe. The stock Magnum cylinder heads have poor breathing you might be able to have the exhaust ported this will help a little but nothing serious. Even if you change the rocker ratio you can only increase it so much because the possibility of a valve hitting a piston. The increase of the rocker ratio would be minimal.

Personally I would start out by making a plan of what you want, instead of jumping in spending large amounts of money it would be good to make yourself a plan, since it's your truck and your money I am going to leave the planning up to you, I can only make suggestions my 2 cents per say.

I would probably start at looking at all the possible engine mod's like the stroker kit. Importantly I would look into a performance ECM or the cheaper root a Performance Chip. Mopar has performance ECM's they sell. The ECM is really the issue with the engine because you cannot do any spark advance or retard because that's the ECM's job, like said no matter what you do to adjust timing the ECM will notice the change and compensate to bring the timing back to original. This is the reason for performance ECM's and chips. Stay away from the 5 dollar performance chips all those things are resistors that you put on the temperature sensor to trick the computer into running rich.

The transmission would be addressed last because that would require rebuilding, so save the best for last :P

I have no input on your stroker kit because I haven't had experience with a stroker kit, but I will look into it and measure the cons and pros as well as look around for something better.

But for now just start making a plan and looking up different mods such as the stroker kit and intake manifold changes and cylinder head mods, performance ECM's and chips, bosch 4 nozzel fuel injectors, performance fuel pumps, engine cooling, drive shafts and U joints, differentials, and so on...

If the magnum could produce amble HP and torque in high RPM it would be a even more perfect engine. But it was designed to be put in a truck so you have to work with it. But those aluminum cylinder heads I would look into those, they are expensive around 800 each but they are very nice.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-31-2011, 02:06 PM
bigmikelrg's Avatar
bigmikelrg bigmikelrg is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Arizona
Age: 23
Posts: 128
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 1999 Dodge Ram 1500 Sport
Color: Black
Engine: 1994-2001 318ci (5.2L) Magnum V8 220hp
Rep Power: 0
Rep:10
bigmikelrg is on a distinguished road
Default

That's dope man but I want to buid my motor and tranny up first then I can start looking at that
__________________
HyperTech Power Programmer, PowerAid Throttle Body spacer, BOSH Plugs, Super40 FlowMaster Exhaust
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-31-2011, 02:16 PM
ramvan2500's Avatar
ramvan2500 ramvan2500 is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1,903
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 1995 Dodge Ram B2500 Van
Trim Level: SLT - 2500
Color: Deep Molten Pearl Coat, Silver, Grey
Engine: 1994-2001 318ci (5.2L) Magnum V8 220hp
Rep Power: 4
Rep:128
ramvan2500 will become famous soon enoughramvan2500 will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen1dak View Post
Ramvan, you don't simply shatter pistons by adding a turbo. Rather, it is the amount of boost. Limited to around 9psi, it'll be fine. Granted, that's quite an expense for limited boost when 12-14 psi could easily be run on good pump gas. For that level of boost, forged pistons would be needed. Check out the '87 Dakota 360 twin turbo test mule. Blast from the past. Man if only they'd built that one!
http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...prototype.html
Putting a turbo on a magnum engine just isn't practical. In order to avoid damage you would have to really know what you're doing. Their was a post made on some other forum of a man with his dakota I think that put a turbo on it and well bye bye piston but I think he was expecting it to break. I can't find the darn post but I'll keep looking.

Anyway's the pistons in the magnum engine are fine maybe not for turbo application but I never put a turbo on my magnum though I thought of it hah. I think having forged wouldn't be a wise move for just a few reasons, one would be the weight it would probably put some drag on the stroke and the ECM would get confused with timing (possibly), another issue might be with expansion as the magnum engine was designed with aluminum pistons because aluminum expands over twice as fast as iron does so this ways the piston keeps it's shape and it's seal. Also the aluminum piston's were used to better distribute the heat from the piston. But just throwing a turbo on a magnum and that's it will damage the engine, it would need to be done properly to avoid the damage. Besides you can probably get more hp and torque in higher RPM's with other modifications besides a turbo which not to mention having an engine that can only handle so much boost.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-31-2011, 02:23 PM
ramvan2500's Avatar
ramvan2500 ramvan2500 is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1,903
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 1995 Dodge Ram B2500 Van
Trim Level: SLT - 2500
Color: Deep Molten Pearl Coat, Silver, Grey
Engine: 1994-2001 318ci (5.2L) Magnum V8 220hp
Rep Power: 4
Rep:128
ramvan2500 will become famous soon enoughramvan2500 will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmikelrg View Post
That's dope man but I want to buid my motor and tranny up first then I can start looking at that
I understand that but you can't do to much if you have a computer that won't let you do much. The only thing you can do with the stock ecm is change the intake manifold, put a TB spacer and port the TB, port the exhaust on the heads, change the rocker ratio, change the fuel injectors. You might not be able to put the stroker kit, but like I said I never had an experience with a stroker kit. I do my best to work with what I got. You could start though by removing the engine and transmission from the truck and put the engine on a stand. But planning first would be nice, you can't just turn a pickup truck into a dragster in 1 day. Something like this could take months. Something like this has to be planned out, no plan no worky.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:09 AM
Gen1dak Gen1dak is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: MS Gulf Coast
Posts: 1,597
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 1990 RamCharger
Color: Red
Engine: 1988-1991 318ci (5.2L) LA V8 140hp
Rep Power: 4
Rep:85
Gen1dak will become famous soon enough
Default

So a turbo isn't practical. Well, let's look at that a minute. Take the 318. Figure 90% volumetric efficiency for the typical stocker. That equals approximately 286 cubic inches actual displacement in a naturally aspirated engine. Now, while up to around 9 psi IS SAFE FOR CAST ALUMINUM PISTONS (can you hear me now?), let's just figure on 7 psi. That's 1/2 atmosphere. So, with positive displacement under boost, you're looking at 150% displacement at 7 psi. In other words, at roughly 100% volumetric efficiency, a turbo 318 at 7 psi is displacing 476 cubic inches. Even if you weight that against less than ideal flow and the exhaust restiction imposed by the turbo, let's say you actually net 450 cubes under full boost. Are you seriously saying that going from natural aspiration of around 290 cubes to over 450 cubes isn't practical??? Even if the engine made 1/2hp per cubic inch that's an 80hp increase without touching anything else. In reality, it'd be closer to 3/4hp per cube on the typical stocker, meaning 120hp. Toss in a better cam and a couple tweaks and you have 1hp per cube. You've gone from 230 to 450. No way will your higher rpm + other mods approach come anywhere close. And how much higher could you go with that higher rpm scheme? Regular duty over 6,000 rpm's requires HD hardware (crank and rod bolts). Start pushing 7 grand and you need a forged "steel" crank and stronger rods. Now for the disclaimer. These numbers aren't cast in stone. Your mileage may vary, but the theory and reality are very close here, and it's basic physics at work. Your Dakota turbo fellow used too much boost or too much ignition timing, or both.
Regarding forged pistons. Umm, they're still aluminum, not iron. You think they'd cause too much drag? Tell that to EVERY 426 Gen II Hemi owner (and most other legendary engines ever built), EVERY race engine builder, every diesel ever made. They are designed to slightly greater tolerances so that when the FORGED ALUMINUM expands, it seals optimally. Confuse the PCM? There's this little thing called a timing chain. It keeps everything in correct time. The reciprocating system would need to be rebalanced for the heavier pistons, just like if a stroker kit were added, or you added all the guts I listed for high rpm's.
Finally, just because someone with more money than knowledge bolts something onto their engine and it blows up doesn't mean it won't work. It does mean they didn't know what they were doing.

Last edited by Gen1dak; 01-01-2012 at 07:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-01-2012, 08:14 AM
bigmikelrg's Avatar
bigmikelrg bigmikelrg is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Arizona
Age: 23
Posts: 128
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 1999 Dodge Ram 1500 Sport
Color: Black
Engine: 1994-2001 318ci (5.2L) Magnum V8 220hp
Rep Power: 0
Rep:10
bigmikelrg is on a distinguished road
Default

Ramvan and gen1dak I have a hyperteck programmer currently using its set to high octane 93 to b exact and it set to run my tranny 500rpm over the stock shift points when I get on it that's the only things it does besides the basic programming purpose like" unlocking the engine" meaning let it go to its full potential quote what all programmers claim so me having that is that good when u say I need to upgrade the ECM and if not how much do performance ones run? And so without one I cannot put a performance cam in it without the emc adapting? And yes I know what u mean about planning I've been a member to this sight for months and have been planing ever since I signed up u guys help me make em and advise me for them. And the reason for the stroker kit is its said by plenty of people that those engines are torque monsters and can b made to make 400h.p. + and where like what sight should I get the little things you hade mentioned like the bosch injectors and such at? And u said do tranny last? I thought u said its a good idea to do it first so when u build ur motor up u have a tranny ready to support it right?
__________________
HyperTech Power Programmer, PowerAid Throttle Body spacer, BOSH Plugs, Super40 FlowMaster Exhaust
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-01-2012, 08:21 AM
bigmikelrg's Avatar
bigmikelrg bigmikelrg is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Arizona
Age: 23
Posts: 128
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 1999 Dodge Ram 1500 Sport
Color: Black
Engine: 1994-2001 318ci (5.2L) Magnum V8 220hp
Rep Power: 0
Rep:10
bigmikelrg is on a distinguished road
Default

O and would porting the exaust would that improve it enough to notice it and can I port the heads without having to upgrade anything and if I do have to is there a kit u can buy for all the parts needed or do you have to buy them seperate? And one thing off topic I have a basic cai I was thinking to changing to the coolant cai or the 14x3 which is beater some say the 14x3 because it's closer to the TB for faster air flow and les linkage restriction and others say the Volans because it uses the cold air from the side wall that the stock air intake got its cold air and a ram scoop that goes from the intake to the front of the grill so it forces cold air in , so that makes 2 cold air sorces.
__________________
HyperTech Power Programmer, PowerAid Throttle Body spacer, BOSH Plugs, Super40 FlowMaster Exhaust
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-01-2012, 04:02 PM
ramvan2500's Avatar
ramvan2500 ramvan2500 is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1,903
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 1995 Dodge Ram B2500 Van
Trim Level: SLT - 2500
Color: Deep Molten Pearl Coat, Silver, Grey
Engine: 1994-2001 318ci (5.2L) Magnum V8 220hp
Rep Power: 4
Rep:128
ramvan2500 will become famous soon enoughramvan2500 will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen1dak View Post
So a turbo isn't practical. Well, let's look at that a minute. Take the 318. Figure 90% volumetric efficiency for the typical stocker. That equals approximately 286 cubic inches actual displacement in a naturally aspirated engine. Now, while up to around 9 psi IS SAFE FOR CAST ALUMINUM PISTONS (can you hear me now?), let's just figure on 7 psi. That's 1/2 atmosphere. So, with positive displacement under boost, you're looking at 150% displacement at 7 psi. In other words, at roughly 100% volumetric efficiency, a turbo 318 at 7 psi is displacing 476 cubic inches. Even if you weight that against less than ideal flow and the exhaust restiction imposed by the turbo, let's say you actually net 450 cubes under full boost. Are you seriously saying that going from natural aspiration of around 290 cubes to over 450 cubes isn't practical??? Even if the engine made 1/2hp per cubic inch that's an 80hp increase without touching anything else. In reality, it'd be closer to 3/4hp per cube on the typical stocker, meaning 120hp. Toss in a better cam and a couple tweaks and you have 1hp per cube. You've gone from 230 to 450. No way will your higher rpm + other mods approach come anywhere close. And how much higher could you go with that higher rpm scheme? Regular duty over 6,000 rpm's requires HD hardware (crank and rod bolts). Start pushing 7 grand and you need a forged "steel" crank and stronger rods. Now for the disclaimer. These numbers aren't cast in stone. Your mileage may vary, but the theory and reality are very close here, and it's basic physics at work. Your Dakota turbo fellow used too much boost or too much ignition timing, or both.
Regarding forged pistons. Umm, they're still aluminum, not iron. You think they'd cause too much drag? Tell that to EVERY 426 Gen II Hemi owner (and most other legendary engines ever built), EVERY race engine builder, every diesel ever made. They are designed to slightly greater tolerances so that when the FORGED ALUMINUM expands, it seals optimally. Confuse the PCM? There's this little thing called a timing chain. It keeps everything in correct time. The reciprocating system would need to be rebalanced for the heavier pistons, just like if a stroker kit were added, or you added all the guts I listed for high rpm's.
Finally, just because someone with more money than knowledge bolts something onto their engine and it blows up doesn't mean it won't work. It does mean they didn't know what they were doing.
I think you misunderstood what I meant by practical. By practical I meant that it isn't really common to slap a turbo on a dodge magnum. I didn't mean that it's a bad idea or anything like that. As for the 426 and diesel engines those engines are usually of higher compression and of well higher torque so steel would obviously be a choice among engine builders. You are correct about requiring a change of hardware when dealing with 6000 RPM, the stock cam and crank are only rated up to 4000 RPM. He might be able to use billet machined aluminum pistons. I personally don't like aluminum when it comes to things like the block and heads. I don't mind aluminum pistons. They can be made lighter and can operate under higher PSI, if made properly. Even if you adjust the timing chain to advance the timing the ECM will try to retard that advancement. The whole timing is controlled by the ECM and strictly the ECM, I have documentation from Chrysler for the Magnum engines and I wanted to get info on timing advance etc and well It said you can't adjust timing by chain or distributor. I figured so. Only thing messing with the timing chain will do on the magnum engines is pretty much nothing. You will be able to keep and exhaust or intake valve open longer but the ECM will pick up on that. The ECM in the Magnum is just like the ECM in the ford mustang engine from the early 90's it has to be tuned perfectly to function properly as far as timing is concerned. The magnum engine of course it's a precision engine it's not perfectly balanced but it still has it's stinkin requirements.

Turbo or not lets just wait until we hear back from the guy who wants to mod his truck.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-01-2012, 04:02 PM
Gen1dak Gen1dak is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: MS Gulf Coast
Posts: 1,597
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 1990 RamCharger
Color: Red
Engine: 1988-1991 318ci (5.2L) LA V8 140hp
Rep Power: 4
Rep:85
Gen1dak will become famous soon enough
Default

This thing is all over the road now.. Step back a minute. What are your goals?the stock computer can handle a significant cam upgrade, no aftermarket tuner required. You need to decide how hot you want it and for what purpose. Then it's easier to determine what is needed. Most of the hype about aftermarket tuners and cheater parts really is overblown for most users, but it's the nature of marketing to suck us in so we buy all their stuff. At some point, an external tuner is necessary, but that's way ahead of the game. On the transmission, yeah, if you're rebuilding now or want to do it all at once, do it now with the engine work.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-01-2012, 04:14 PM
Gen1dak Gen1dak is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: MS Gulf Coast
Posts: 1,597
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 1990 RamCharger
Color: Red
Engine: 1988-1991 318ci (5.2L) LA V8 140hp
Rep Power: 4
Rep:85
Gen1dak will become famous soon enough
Default

Ramvan, I don't pretend to know it all, but what I do know, I know very well. I'm not out to attack you or anything like that. This is not personal. You are enthusiastic, and that's a good thing. However, you are also in waaaay over your head. The 426 had 10.25 to 1 compression. The diesel in my boat is 22.5:1. Neither had a turbo. Both have forged aluminum pistons. What do you think happens when the boost comes up? Cylinder pressure increases. Simple as that. So be it 10:1, 22:1 or 8:1 with 10 lbs boost, it's all the same. There's more stress than a cast piston can handle, forged must be used.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Advertisement






All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:14 PM.


= Copyright RamForumZ.com a Gigathreads.com Network Site =Ad Management by RedTyger
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vB.Sponsors


=Gigathreads Network=
CLUBS MOPAR NATION DSM GPMM MAMM JAM
DIESEL Diesel Forum      
CHEVY Chevy Camaro Forum Chevy Volt Forum    
CHRYSLER Chrysler 300C Forum      
DODGE Dodge Avenger Forum Dodge Caliber Forum Dodge Challenger Forum Dodge Charger Forum
  Dodge Circuit Forum Dodge Hornet Forum Dodge Magnum Forum Dodge Nitro Forum
  Dodge Ram Forum Dodge Dakota Forum Dodge Durango Forum Dodge Dart Forum
FORD Ford Raptor Forum Ford F150 Forum Ford F100 Forum  
JEEP Jeep Forum      
PONTIAC Pontiac G8 Forum      
SRT SRT Viper Forum SRT Cuda Forum