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Wax over Wax vs Wax over Sealant

3K views 21 replies 7 participants last post by  primo spaghetti 
#1 ·
Maybe a few of the pros will chime in here-

I have gathered that for a great shine on your vehicle a person needs to wash it and then slap on a layer of sealant, let it cure, then put a layer of 845 over it. I cant say I have tried this but I was just curious why not put a layer of 845 over it then do another layer of 845? I myself dont really see, and this is just my opinion, how layers really can make a car shine more than a single layer. In my mindset, during the buffing process, you would just be taking the previous layer off to a degree making it kinda pointless?? Hopefully one of the pro's can chime in here and straighten this out!


Also has anyone tried Meguiar's M26? How does it compare to #845 in terms of shine? I have gathered #845 is a forum favorite but I am looking for a helluva shine and just want to see what everyone says. By the looks of it I will be going with #845. Thanks in advance - just a newbie trying to gain knowledge :) :smileup:
 
#2 · (Edited)
I am not a pro but my understanding is you would not use both ie. wax over sealant. Rather if you do not want to invest the time to wax 3 or 4 times a year, sealant is the product to use because it generally lasts 6-12 months. I know that Meguiars makes very good products, but I am not familiar with the specific ones you mentioned.
 
#10 · (Edited)
you can most definately top a sealant with a wax, but nto the other way around really. The wax will give a little more longevity to the sealant (as the wax will wear before the sealant), and some have reported that the wax topper gives a bit more of the carnuaba glow back to the sometimes candied appearance of a sealant.

I personally have always topped wolfgang paint sealant with poorboys liquid nattys blue...awseome stuff...

You don't get that awesome shine by just washing and slapping a coat of wax or sealant on your finish. The car in the link you posted is kind of false advertising as they just didn't wash that car and then slap some 845 on it. They probably spent 4-5 hours on that finish and went thru 5 machine pads and 4 different types of product. In a nut shell without getting in to crazy detail, here are a few steps to achieve the shine you are after. Just because you use wax doesn't mean you are going to have a Barrett Jackson shine, those types of finishes you see have had 10 hour’s worth of work to get there, not a 10 minute wash and 20 minute wax job. Primary job of wax is to protect, period. Wax and sealant will enhance the gloss/shine and depth but will protect first and foremost. When you see a finish that has depth that you could fall into with the shine/gloss to back it up, is mostly achieved through polishing. Most people totally skip right over this step as you did. Anyway here is a real quick rundown.

--Wash (use dawn if you have some, it makes it easier)
--Clay bar
--Wash again
--You should use a 2 bucket method, one with plain water to rise your dirty mitt, the other with car wash soap.
--Now you have a clean slate to start working with and will start with one of the most important steps you missed as most people do. Polishing. Most people think you only need to polish to remove heavy swirls or oxidation. Wrong. If you have very very minor swirling I wouldn't use a cutting polish or pad as the finish on these trucks are super thin and wouldn't warrant cutting a layer down just to remove such minor marring. I would use a finessing pad and a non-cutting polish to bring the depth and shine out of the finish.
--if you used a non-cutting polish then you can move on, if you used a medium cut/heavy cut depending on your finish, you may need to knock it down one more step with a fine cut polish and polish pad, or non-cut polish with polish pad, depending on the marring left behind from the previous step. Again just a quick run down here.
--Next you can pick the sealant of your choice, I do love my #845 and I will pick that bottle up.
--Then throw a wax topper on to add extra protection for your sealant as well as kicks it up a notch in the gloss/shine dept as well.

Again I could write a 5000 word essay on the subject, but this was a quick run-down. Obviously there would be more polishing/finessing steps depending on finish, pads, and product used.

Couple examples
Before


After


Before


After




great advice here...the wax or dealant is jhust going to protect the condition of the paint when it is applied...ill post a couple pics here too, but i have sepnt upwards of 24 hours in a multi step polishing process to make the paint perfect...your gloos and shne are going to come mostly from the fine finishing polish, but again, if there are still swirls or imperfections, that is where you will loose reflectivness and gloss. Again, i must stress that while the wax oe selaant brings about its own warmth or depth, it is really meant for protecting and preserving the paint finish below...that is why i would highly recommend after 24 hours of polishing, to consider something more permanet like Cquartz or Opti Coat.

Oh yea how about mine :)

Old truck


New Truck

hehe...now here is a talneted detailer...he made a gen 2 ram look like a gen 4 with a porter cable!!! :SHOCKED: just kidding..nice work there.

here is a quick spring detail without polishing...this is a previous application of 2 coats of wolfgang topped with liquid natty's blue. for the clean up, i just washed and hit with duragloss awauawax...





Now this is after about a 24 hour, multi correction process in order to prep for Opti Coat 2.0...all products used here were from the Optimum line...







 
#3 ·
Everyone has their own favorite type of polish, sealant and/or wax. You are correct in that many people like 845 for the results they receive however there are jsut as many people who perfer something else. I use Wolfgang sealant 2.0 as a base and top it with 845. The sealant will last about 6 months whereas most waxes last about 60 days depending on how much you wash your truck, whether you park inside or outside and the enviorment you live in. Sealant gives you long lasting protection and gives you a great "shine", however the wax gives you more "depth" and "warmth" and just gives your truck a little extra "pop". There is a line of products, "Opti" that do a great job and last a long long time. I am not as familiar with them as Primo and Leadfootluke are, so I think they would have a lot better info than I do on those products.
Jay
 
#6 · (Edited)
You don't get that awesome shine by just washing and slapping a coat of wax or sealant on your finish. The car in the link you posted is kind of false advertising as they just didn't wash that car and then slap some 845 on it. They probably spent 4-5 hours on that finish and went thru 5 machine pads and 4 different types of product. In a nut shell without getting in to crazy detail, here are a few steps to achieve the shine you are after. Just because you use wax doesn't mean you are going to have a Barrett Jackson shine, those types of finishes you see have had 10 hour’s worth of work to get there, not a 10 minute wash and 20 minute wax job. Primary job of wax is to protect, period. Wax and sealant will enhance the gloss/shine and depth but will protect first and foremost. When you see a finish that has depth that you could fall into with the shine/gloss to back it up, is mostly achieved through polishing. Most people totally skip right over this step as you did. Anyway here is a real quick rundown.

--Wash (use dawn if you have some, it makes it easier)
--Clay bar
--Wash again
--You should use a 2 bucket method, one with plain water to rise your dirty mitt, the other with car wash soap.
--Now you have a clean slate to start working with and will start with one of the most important steps you missed as most people do. Polishing. Most people think you only need to polish to remove heavy swirls or oxidation. Wrong. If you have very very minor swirling I wouldn't use a cutting polish or pad as the finish on these trucks are super thin and wouldn't warrant cutting a layer down just to remove such minor marring. I would use a finessing pad and a non-cutting polish to bring the depth and shine out of the finish.
--if you used a non-cutting polish then you can move on, if you used a medium cut/heavy cut depending on your finish, you may need to knock it down one more step with a fine cut polish and polish pad, or non-cut polish with polish pad, depending on the marring left behind from the previous step. Again just a quick run down here.
--Next you can pick the sealant of your choice, I do love my #845 and I will pick that bottle up.
--Then throw a wax topper on to add extra protection for your sealant as well as kicks it up a notch in the gloss/shine dept as well.

Again I could write a 5000 word essay on the subject, but this was a quick run-down. Obviously there would be more polishing/finessing steps depending on finish, pads, and product used.

Couple examples
Before


After


Before


After




 
#8 · (Edited)
Jayincali - Thanks for that write up - def alot of help and please feel free to elaborate should you think of anything more! Now you mentioned polishing - what do you use for a polish ? The only polishes that come to my mind are Astro Shield and Liquid Glass. I know alot of people use a buffer for their vehicles but I am not the most knowledgable about them in terms of use. I have a Milwaukee one (90 degree) and its so damn heavy. Also the last time i used it , it left the sealant in tiny hardend dots all over the paint. I am sure it was user error but I will be most likely doing this by hand.

Edit* I just seen you called the #845 a sealant - what do you use for a wax then? As far as I knew #845 was a wax?? Not calling you wrong or anything, just trying to understand this stuff :)
 
#11 ·
Edit* I just seen you called the #845 a sealant - what do you use for a wax then? As far as I knew #845 was a wax?? Not calling you wrong or anything, just trying to understand this stuff :)
You are right, I did. 845 is my wax, Optimum Opti Seal is my sealant. Good catch.

Awesome looking job.
Thank you sir.

hehe...now here is a talneted detailer...he made a gen 3 ram look like a gen 4 with a porter cable!!!
Yea thats quite the before and after huh. Lol
 
#14 ·
Primo - this there is a few wolfgang products...did you have a specific one in mind? This stuff def in not cheap lol. Also are there any other good polishes you might recommend? Liquid glass ? The only reason I ask is that I have liquid glass and I think it is a polish versus a wax?
 
#15 · (Edited)
all of the Wolfgang products are great IMO and worth the extra money. Their total swirl remover and finishing glaze (referred to as the wolfgang twins) are great and apparently made by Menzerna. I have many products from the wolfgang line and they are great. I was making specific reference to the Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant above.

Ive never used Liquid Glass, but im a firm believer in if you have something and like it, great! use it.

If you like the looks of the Opti Seal, think about getting into the Optimum line...their hyper compound and hyper polish are great...then top with the optiseal and optimum car wax...a great line up of products and a bit cheaper than the Wolfgang..
 
#16 ·
I concur with Primo. Wolfgang is awesome, product may seem expensive, but a little product goes a long ways. Also I second Menzerna polishes, I love them. Also check out Klasse products as well. Just to put product usage in perspective I can wax my entire truck with 845 and only use 1/4" of product from the bottle.
 
#17 ·
Hey guys thanks for the reply! I think I will try the liquid glass polish and see what happens. The menzerna sf4000 or sf4500 are pretty expensive lol. The sf4000 though is a cutting polish and due to the extremely thin paint on these trucks I think I will stay away from that one. The sf4500 though I dont think is a cutter - or at least i dont remember reading that it is lol. Now last question - is the wolfgang 3.0 polish better than the regular? I cant seem to really find a difference in the two? I think once i get that answer i can get to work on getting this stuff ordered and see if i cant get my arm to fall off!
 
#18 ·
im lost with your question about the 3.0 polish...3.0 is the version number...

are you looking for the polish, or the swirl remover? the swirl remover has more cut...
 
#19 ·
Primo -

Got your PM - all straightened out. I guess I misread some stuff when looking over all the stuff on the website. Any recommendations on a clay bar or is one just as good as another? I never have clay bar'd anything so i dont know the first thing about it lol

Jim
 
#20 ·
Any one of you guys are welcome to wash, polish, seal, or wax my truck :wavey:
 
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