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Wow 4+4 lock is not lock !

22K views 130 replies 29 participants last post by  striker2237 
#1 ·
I towed a ram this am and he was just missing a pole so I had him goto 4wd low lock and I would tow him slightly forward and have him give it gas to miss the pole being I could not tow him forward from where he was. So I hooked up and he went to 4wd low lock. I looked back and the rear tires were spinning ! I just told him again to goto low lock. He said it is ! So I looked, it said it was. He gave it alittle gas and the front started spinning. IMO the truck should be locked together and spin one front and one rear unless lsd. Im shocked that this case will not go into lock. Are they all like this ? Mine seems to lock but mine has the older case.

interesting ....:4-dontknow:
 
#3 ·
With the electronic transfer cases, if you apply too much power during the shift, the computer will refuse the shift. That's why it finally went in when he lifted on the throttle. Also, if the truck is stationary and there is to much pressure on the driveline the gears will not be able to mesh, and again the computer will refuse the shift. Your buddy needs to read his manual.
 
#4 ·
um no ! you might wanna go look at your truck ...if your transfercase has the auto 4wd option you do NOT have 4wd lock ! you only have AWD ...

if you put your truck in 4wd lock it will not be locked into 4wd ! the front will not be locked.

To test this go out and find a parking lot with ice in it and put the front wheels upto the curb ,goto 4wd low lock (wait for the 4wd lock light to come on) let off the brake and the rear tires will spin (if on ice) and the fronts will not ! if you jump on the gas the front will engage. thats AWD not 4wd lock ...:LOL:


youve been had ! .....
 
#5 · (Edited)
That is not the way mine works. If I put it in 4W Lock and wait for the confirmation on the instrument panel I have 4 lock just like all the other 4x4 vehicles I have ever had. If I put it in 4W Auto it work as you describe. I think in the OP the other driver did not allow the transfer case to actually get into 4 lock as TCJ suggested.
 
#11 ·
I have read your comments and the other comments you linked to, and all I can say is that in my own experience with my own truck, 4 Hi, is definitely engaged 100% of the time. There is no slip or disengagement whatsoever.

Even in 4 Auto, I have not encountered what you are describing, and god knows we have had our fill of ice and snow this winter.

What I could see happening with this type of wet clutch arrangement, is that you could potentially burn the clutch pack with allot of abuse. :4-dontknow:
 
#9 ·
Manual engagement is so much better, my 98 cummins work rig has it. I do not like relying on a dial for 4x4 and waiting for the damn thing to lock in a light up, 4x4 low takes forever -.-
My truck locks because I don't have all these fancy auto 4x4 feat like the higher end Rams and GM trucks do. Just 4x4 lock and 4x4 low.
 
#10 ·
wonder if one could order the parts to convert it back to manual and or make/design a kit to do it. to me it would not be to hard. I wish mine was a manual. My other f150 has failed twice when plowing and need me to remove the engagement motor and turn out 4wd low by hand ! sucks when its freeking cold out !
 
#16 ·
youll find out ... the case will not lock untill you get on the gas..its awd not full lock

simple test : goto 4wd low lock ...drive it alittle so you know its in... put it in park...use a floor jack and jack the rear up slighly. ... get in truck,go to drive,release brake.... whats happening ? oh yea the rear tires are spinning ! if it was a true lock the truck would want to go forward and or rear tires would not be spinning . :thk:
 
#17 · (Edited)
To make sure that I understand...

What happens in that case if you get on the throttle after you release the brake? Everything then locks up?? The same as it would in 4WD Auto???
 
#18 · (Edited)
yep if you get on the gas it will engage. its a on demand/awd system you have not locked . only a clutched engagement. unlike the trucks without the auto option 4wd is locked together inboth 4wd high and low.

The big problem is if you get stuck in thick mud ect you can burn up the 4wd very fast. why? if the front and or rear tires are stuck/not spinning and you gas it the rear or front can spin without the others spinning. there not locked together. at this point the clutches are being over powered and destroying the case.
 
#20 ·
yep if you get on the gas it will engage. its a on demand/awd system you have not locked . only a clutched engagement. unlike the trucks without the auto option 4wd is locked together inboth 4wd high and low.
This is absolutely not what is happening. If it is on your truck, you need to get it serviced.

And no, I am not putting my truck on a floor jack in 4 Hi to test this. Nor should anyone else.
 
#19 ·
Sumbitch... If the 44-44 in my new truck operates as you describe when it arrives, I'm gonna be pizzed. I need the 4WD Auto functionality for winter driving, but I will burn the clutches up in the t-case quickly off-road. Lock needs to be a mechanical (gear or chain) lock... not a clutch/lsd/coupler/etc.

I just found several threads on other forums about the exact thing you are describing.

Thanks for pointing this out. I think. :(
 
#23 ·
My point is we've been relying on "systems" for a long time.
Manual locking hubs on a 98 ram is an aftermarket kit or someone wisely swapped in parts from a ford dana 60

No matter if the lever is in the tcase, the Center axle disconnect still has to work (unless the front has a spool)

Back to the original topic, if in lock, or 4low the electronic clutch should be engaged, and not running through the ESP system like it does in Auto mode.
Now whether that is whats happening, I couldn't say.
I know it's been discussed on here before and I'm no proponent for the AUTO function transfer cases, as they tend to fail more often than non auto.
If it is still acting like its in auto mode in the other selections that sounds like a programming F up.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I think what the OP is simply pointing out is that the Borg Warner 44-44 transfer does not solidly lock the front and rear output shafts together. They are "locked" (Chrysler's term used in the RAM marketing material) together via a clutch of some sort.

This isn't an issue with how the t-case is told to lock up, the problem is the actual design.

I can't find any info from Borg Warner on the 44-44 or any cutaway drawings of it. Are there any techs on here that may have been inside one of them??
 
#26 ·
I think what the OP is simply pointing out is that the Borg Warner 44-44 transfer does not solidly lock the front and rear output shafts together. They are "locked" together via a clutch of some sort.

This isn't an issue with how the t-case is told to lock up, the problem is the actual design.

I can't find any info from Borg Earner on the 44-44 or any cutaway drawings of it. Are there any techs on here that may have been inside one of them??
I know what the OP is saying. But is it his, or is it them all.

An electronic clutch.
The cutaway pic I saw it still contained a chain and the other usual components, but added an electronic clutch. Now whether this cut away pic was accurate is another thing.

I disagree. To contain the auto mode it has to do that. Otherwise it has to go back to the 70's technology and go full time with compensating gears. I think it is an issue of programming.
It clearly operates in its auto mode, meaning the clutches are engaging when told to. It's just not being told to "stay locked" IMO

You are correct about very little info about them, but what little info I found was talking about the electronic engagement.
 
#28 ·
#34 ·
First both my trucks, my 09, and my 13 work perfectly. I put it in lock, or low, front spins immediately. I dislike the auto t cases, and this just gives me more ammunition, however that isn't the discussion.

Go read my posts.
I'm not saying it isn't. I'm saying it shouldn't. That's a programming f up from mother chrysler, since the tcases are capable of full lock.

That's a fact jack
 
#33 ·
I think we're all agreeing, we just don't realize it. :)

Borg Warner advertises their "On Demand" t-cases as AWD and that they do lock, but only when they sense slip... Even in 4WD Hi Lock and 4WD Low Lock. My concern for off-road is that all of the locking-unlocking would cause wear or damage. Is this a legit concern, or is it simply a magnetic lock/unlock and no wear would occur??? If it's a clutch lock/unlock, that would definitely be a concern.

In short, I think the OP is right, but does it really matter?? :) I'm not sure yet.
 
#35 ·
Borg Warner advertises their "On Demand" t-cases as AWD and that they do lock, but only when they sense slip

my point 100% !!!!!! when in 4wd lock you are NOT locked in ! if and when spinning happens the clutch engages and locks in 4wd. your truck will not sense slip unless the trucks gas pedal is pressed.
 
#42 ·
Agreed... After watching the video two more times. :)

The coil in your truck must be activated by slip. Correct?

The coil in your truck could be activated by the t-case selector button. Correct?

But it would never be truly locked as it's only as good as the pressure across the plates.
 
#40 ·
Help me out on how the Gen 4 trucks work...

Does the driveshaft always turn with the front wheels? If not, where is the disconnect... hubs or diff??
 
#43 ·
** Note... after watching that video, owners should make sure they use the right fluid to keep those clutch plates/discs alive!
 
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