Hey guys. I'm sure most of you on here are sick and tired of hearing about my problems with my truck but I have yet another problem. This time it is when the MDS kicks in. Something is clicking under the hood. So I took it to the dealer and the tech deems it that my flowmaster muffler is causing the MDS to fail. But yet they don't know where the clicking is coming for. So they want to charge me for diagnostics and the time then spent in it cause quote " my high performance exhaust system" unquote is the problem. So they didn't fix anything and can't find the click but I have to pay for it? I refused to pay it and told them to keep the truck and to have the service manager call me tomorrow.
So I just left the dealership and it went pretty good I would say. I tool the service manager for a ride and duplicated the sound. He said it definitely isn't a normal click ad that he highly doubts its the muffler causing the issue. We arranged an appointment for next week and he said their gunna take care of it... Fingers crossed...
I think the factory y-pipe is like it is because of the MDS system. Think about it, when the engine goes into 4 cyl mode, it becomes a 172.5c.i. engine. You need the smaller I.D. squished pipes to match the lessened exhaust flow to keep exhaust velocity up. This is done strictly for MPG with the MDS.
Now if you've turned off the MDS with a tuner, whole different ballgame. Now you need engine to breath better. Headers into hi-flo cats, into hi-flo performance exhaust, but it still needs to be sized right for the RPM/HP/torque range engine will operate in. It all has to match or it will not run as it should.
Great point HP.....and setting everything up performance perfect is riding a fine line....Cliff thought he had done this, and look what he's going through. I believe it depends on the motor that comes with your vehicle...some are assembled better (a Wednesday or Thursday build), which will accept a tune and bolt ons easier....then you have the Monday/Friday build...a complete dog, and no matter what you do, it runs poor. I guess it's a chance you take for performance....if I want a rocket, I'll get a Challenger or 5.0 Stang. Just my 2 cents...Happy Father's Day to everyone! :smiley_thumbs_up:
i never bought into the "buy a wednesday build or what have you. sometimes parts of a lesser quality sneak through, a substandard block gets by undetected ect.. doesn't really depend on the day imho.
Grubrunner, I only said "I think" the y-pipe was designed to work with the MDS system, but it still makes sense to me. The smaller the engine the smaller exhaust you need, fact. When the factory designed the HEMI MDS system, it was designed for MPG, "not" performance. How much time is the MDS engaged while driving? A lot, probably over 90% of all engine run times, "unless its turned off by a tuner". At 55 MPH the throttle blade is barely cracked open which limits air in, which negates the need for a hi-po exhaust going out, no where near the flow limits of stock manifolds/cats.
Will your truck run with the y-pipe and other exhaust mods? Yes, most probably. If you could find a dyno that read low enough to measure 1500 RPM @ 55 MPH, I would bet that with the hi-po exhaust you lost some torque. Will it help at 65 MPH and above? Some. Wide open throttle? Again, some. Remember the stock manifolds/cats? But 1. How long do you drive it at WOT? and 2. The biggest restriction is still the exhaust manifolds/cats. and 3. The ECU is set for "stock" everything. It will accept some changes, but when those changes go out of the set limits it cannot over ride itself to keep up with them. That's when codes are set and engine starts doing goofy things.
Just another small update, I took the service manager for a ride and duplicated the sound and he agreed that its not normal and it's not the exhaust causing the problem. So it's going there tomorrow to get looked at again. Also I put the truck on jack stands and put it in drive and made it make the clicking sound... No spicific part is clicking, the entire engine shakes something ferce when it kickin in to 4 banger mod. So I have no idea what it could be.
Also the truck is definitely burning oil, the dealer did an oil change 1.5 weeks ago and the oil Level is already below the safe mark... And it only has 500km on it so far. I have videos of it blowing smoke while driving and I'm not even driving it hard... If I set the cruise to 60km and drive for about 2km's then just touch the throttle it smokes like I'm rolling diesel coal but only whitish grey... I'll post the videos later on tonight...
And one more thing... I think the service manager is on my side even with the mods because I received a cheque in the mail yesterday from the dealership for the money they charged me to look at it te other week when they denied my claim... Hopefully things are starting to look up for me...
Just another small update, I took the service manager for a ride and duplicated the sound and he agreed that its not normal and it's not the exhaust causing the problem. So it's going there tomorrow to get looked at again. Also I put the truck on jack stands and put it in drive and made it make the clicking sound... No spicific part is clicking, the entire engine shakes something ferce when it kickin in to 4 banger mod. So I have no idea what it could be.
Also the truck is definitely burning oil, the dealer did an oil change 1.5 weeks ago and the oil Level is already below the safe mark... And it only has 500km on it so far. I have videos of it blowing smoke while driving and I'm not even driving it hard... If I set the cruise to 60km and drive for about 2km's then just touch the throttle it smokes like I'm rolling diesel coal but only whitish grey... I'll post the videos later on tonight...
And one more thing... I think the service manager is on my side even with the mods because I received a cheque in the mail yesterday from the dealership for the money they charged me to look at it te other week when they denied my claim... Hopefully things are starting to look up for me...
Great! However, if it turns sour again, don't take NO for an answer. If they are going to deny your claim because of your exhaust, they need to prove the exhaust is causing, or caused the issue. And in order to prove that, they need to figure out what the issue is. If they don't know what the issue is, how can they say it was caused by exhaust.
Also, document, document, document. Write EVERY conversation down in a document, and write exactly what things were said. If this goes sour, you will need this documentation for CAMVAP.
If this goes sour, I can help you with any questions you have about CAMVAP. I have an open case going myself.
So I started an oil consumption report last Thursday and I'm supposed to bring it in every week so the can check it and record anything if they have to.. I have 400 kms on the oil change so far and I brought it in last night after work and it was down 1.5 liters already... So there definitely is something going on inside the engine somewhere... It's at the dealer today for the clicking noise again and most likely the oil problem.
Ok, I have to step in here. Sorry I did not see this thread sooner.
I had my '11 in for this exact issue. My service manager and I thought it was the torque converter. However, after not one, or two, but 3 converters, the noise was still there (there were other things that led them to replace it 3x too).
The day I went to get my truck, my service manager and I spent 4 hours driving 6 other Ram's, 3 new and 3 used and ALL of them...EVERY one, made the noise. Sounds kind of like a playing card stuck in a bicycle wheel right? just not as loud? and only on coasting or under VERY light throttle application. Turn off MDS with tow/haul or by selecting a gear on the trans manually and it goes away.
Come to find out, it is the injectors of the cylinders that are not receiving fuel in MDS mode. It took my dealer techs 3 days of diagnostics with computers and equipment to narrow it down. They even placed my ram on a dyno at a shop down the street so they could drive it with the computers hooked up to get readouts. The results are conclusive, there is absolutely nothing wrong with your truck, other than its making the noise...
Ok, I have to step in here. Sorry I did not see this thread sooner.
I had my '11 in for this exact issue. My service manager and I thought it was the torque converter. However, after not one, or two, but 3 converters, the noise was still there (there were other things that led them to replace it 3x too).
The day I went to get my truck, my service manager and I spent 4 hours driving 6 other Ram's, 3 new and 3 used and ALL of them...EVERY one, made the noise. Sounds kind of like a playing card stuck in a bicycle wheel right? just not as loud? and only on coasting or under VERY light throttle application. Turn off MDS with tow/haul or by selecting a gear on the trans manually and it goes away.
Come to find out, it is the injectors of the cylinders that are not receiving fuel in MDS mode. It took my dealer techs 3 days of diagnostics with computers and equipment to narrow it down. They even placed my ram on a dyno at a shop down the street so they could drive it with the computers hooked up to get readouts. The results are conclusive, there is absolutely nothing wrong with your truck, other than its making the noise...
You would have to ignore the most obvious and damaging symptom: being that of burning a quart of oil burning to dismiss such a serious engine problem that he has. For an injector to make noise, it would need some form of energy to make that noise., either miss-happen electrical signals or faulty pressure regulation. Either way, a proper deactivated fuel injector should be silent.
How are they not receiving fuel? I thought they just didn't open and spray fuel, as the fuel rail is fully pressurized all the time. Doesn't the ECU just not power the fuel injectors when in MDS mode? Am I missing something here?
I don't know about Canada, but in the states we have a thing called a "lemon law". Some states are different on how the law reads, but I had dodge/Chrysler buy my 1st 2012 Cummings back from me. They don't want the bad press. Look up your lemon laws and put pressure on the dealership.
I had the same thing until recently. I have been to the dealer for the same amount of time as you, 2 years. I was told it was normal too. I am not going to settle for an embarrassing noise from a $30,000 truck. This last time to the dealer was finally a good one. What the tick is, is the retainers on the rocker shaft that bend. They take the valve covers off and there are 2 tabs on the retainers. They either bend them inward or outward, doesn't matter and that cures the tick. They are hitting with the pushrod rhythm.
What happen was the programmer he had put in a corrupt file in the ECM when he had all the misfire issues and the kept driving it on 6-7 cylinders and I'm assuming it washed out the ring and he did a compression test on it and some cylinders are lacking compression and this is the reason for the oil burning.. Now the only issue is trying to get the dealer to replace the motor or rebuild it.. And he can't exactly tell em there was a programmer on it
Hey Dodgeboy. Not in complete disagreement here but questioning your theory.
I too feel the tuner f'd the ecu & gave him the majority of the issues. However & I may be wrong cause A- I'm new to dodge, the hemi & ram trucks as far as ownership & knowledge. My only prior experience was w/ friends who replaced transmissions sometimes more than twice on theses trucks. Not the 2009-2012 gens but before them a lot. I fancy my self as a semi skilled mechanic home grown of sorts & all my introduction to tools & machines is courtesy of my father who was a mechanic for over 45 years. That all said these hemi's are not dry sump motors & nor do they have electronic oil pumps. The m.d.s system is computer controlled on the ignition / fuel & air side but the oil pump is old school mechanical like most any other motor. So that said I can't figure out how a ring could go dry. In four or eight cylinder mode the oil pump is functioning same same. Please explain to me I'm not being a wise ass & I too feel the tuner let him down. But w/ modern vehicles it's the only way to mod & enjoy theses toys....
:smileup:
that tuner thing is bad news....I replaced chips in both a snowmobile and a wheeler same deal.. screwing with the air/fuel timing..etc it makes a difference in the short term but it will burn down way sooner than if u left it stock...now this is your truck..that is nasty to think about playing with $30k or more truck and expect dodge to warranty that..u screwed with it...should be out of pocket u took the chance.....turner threads about knock..helloo timing issues your gonna crack a ring all in all its bad news!!to me its not a dodge issue..why should they warranty something that was messed with?
In the defense of cliff N all the boys n girls on here that like to mod their trucks. Get over it already w/ the "it's your fault you shouldn't touch your truck leave things alone nonsense"! Yea they're expensive & yea it's a truck not a track car. But lets analyze the whole modern truck concept here. All not just dodge are guilty of sucking up to performance hungry individuals that yearn for something more, an edge over their neighbor or friend if you will. So it's human nature to modify & tinker to gain some kind of advantage in the whole truck / car game. I see how you could say it was the tuner & rams not responsible for damages incurred after the truck was toyed w/. I agree. But in the big picture if what people say is true about modifying vehicles such as our trucks then they shouldn't offer any of the following: No raptors w/ 400 plus hp, No ram runner kits for extreme off road use, No chevy SS models that beg to spin the tire & be launched down a track. No rumble bee's, No SRT versions 10 or 8 cylinder. No typhoons & no lightenings. All trucks as per those complaining about modifications should come standard w/ an inline 6cylinder for higher torque & be available in diesel or gas. No hemi's no ford 6.2 liter's & no GM 6.0 liters. Only dull boring in line 6 cylinder engines w/ high torque numbers & the occasional 4.7 or a similar small 8 cylinder that can't be tuned or touched. No lifts, no lowering & no added trailering aids like air bags just incase you put 3lbs over the limit on the truck & chrysler refuses a warranty claim. Why not just take the whole performance market & toss it into the crapper!.
It boils down to money. "If" the dealer does it, lift, lower, bigger tires, different exhaust, different gears, factory hi-po tuner or whatever, its OK. "If" you do same thing and something goes sour, "they" can start denying warranty. I lowered the back of my truck with springs/shocks. So NO warranty if a shock starts leaking or spring sags. "If" they wanted to be #@$%%&^'s and I had a bushing go bad in a track bar, "they" could refuse to fix because its not factory ride height and "I" caused it. All depends on dealer, what mod, and most important, how much $$$$$$$$.
It boils down to money. "If" the dealer does it, lift, lower, bigger tires, different exhaust, different gears, factory hi-po tuner or whatever, its OK. "If" you do same thing and something goes sour, "they" can start denying warranty. I lowered the back of my truck with springs/shocks. So NO warranty if a shock starts leaking or spring sags. "If" they wanted to be #@$%%&^'s and I had a bushing go bad in a track bar, "they" could refuse to fix because its not factory ride height and "I" caused it. All depends on dealer, what mod, and most important, how much $$$$$$$$.
Yup.....and when you do hi-po mods yourself, all bets are off. All work must be documented by the factory if they are going to foot a bill for major mechanical work......shadetree mechanics with these high tech ECU's today is taking a huge financial risk. A friend of mine, who is a Master Mechanic for Ford told me last week, the biggest red flag for warranty denial today is the aftermarket tuners......enough said.