DODGE RAM FORUM - Ram Forums and Owners Club! - Dodge Truck Forum

Go Back   DODGE RAM FORUM - Ram Forums and Owners Club! - Dodge Truck Forum > Dodge Ram Forum - Mod Zone - Custom Dodge Ram Mods - Dodge Ram Performance > Custom Dodge Ram Performance Mods - Engine - 5.7 HEMI V8


Notices

Custom Dodge Ram Performance Mods - Engine - 5.7 HEMI V8 Discuss modifying your Dodge Ram with Performance Parts and Accessories!
Factory Spec: 5.7-liter HEMI® V8 engine - 390 horsepower, 407 lb-ft of torque.


Latest Vendor News
AutoAnything
Addictive Desert Designs!
United Radio
Bayou Goat Mounts

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 03-03-2012, 12:26 AM
rtcanada's Avatar
rtcanada rtcanada is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: AB, Canada
Age: 23
Posts: 172
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2010 Dodge Ram
Trim Level: RT
Color: Black
Rep Power: 0
Rep:10
rtcanada is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHVYKLR View Post
rtcanada - what cam are you going with btw? I didn't know crower made a 4th gen cam. Is it the same one shophemi sells b/c I think crower makes their 4th gen cam?

While L/Ts are the best choice I still figure the $$$ per hp when I buy mods and it looks like you are basically doing the same. No there aren't any dyno #s out for the JBAs but I will agree with you the $1000 difference isn't worth 10-15 hp unless you are trying to get every last hp out of your motor. I think your truck will run pretty good with the mods/tuning you are planning and the NOS (100 hp shot??).
The cam is the 00133HR, its a custom grind, as soon as I find the timing card I'll post the specs since I have had the cam for sooo long without installing it I can't remember what the specs are off the top of my head.

The other thing that worries me about getting to much torque early in the power band is our trucks trannies, I'd rather have a much more "peaky" truck, where the power comes on surging instead of being there right at the get go. I hope, if funds permit to talk to NX about getting a TB plate kit to add a little more "juice" to the truck for track days.

I've dynod the truck with an intake and programmer at 320whp (uncorrected) thats at 3000ft lol, the 1/4 mile that I'll be going to is about 2200ft, so hopefully with the cam and exhaust I'll be able to get close to the 400whp (peak) and then hit that 100shot on a window switch. Time will tell.
__________________
Got Milk?
Got 4.10s!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #22  
Old 03-16-2012, 03:27 PM
BlackRamHemi's Avatar
BlackRamHemi BlackRamHemi is online now
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Age: 51
Posts: 2,528
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2010 Ram RCSB 4x4
Trim Level: Sport
Color: Brilliant Black
Rep Power: 7
Rep:539
BlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtcanada View Post
At the low to mid end, the best way to maximize your scavenging effect, thus helping to maximize your engine's V.E., Is to move the exhuast out of the engine as fast as possible, or with as much velocity as possible. Long tubes work best for this because of their length, and their width (well, lack of width). Thier length allows an elongated path for the gas to flow, thus allowing the gas to leave the cylinder with more speed because the gas has more time to gain velocity before it hits the collector.

Now, you've heard car enthusiasts state that ANY restriction is bad for a motor, no matter what. This is not completly true, in your exhaust, small, strategically placed, smooth mandrel restrictions can be a good thing due to the fact that well place, correct sized restrictions followed by larger openings actually speed up exhuast gas flow. So the smaller diameter tubes actually serve your scavenging better in the mid and low ranges.

Mid and low ranges dont produce alot of actual exhuast volume, so small tubes dont restrict or "back up" flow.

LARGE, SHORT TUBE HEADERS MAKE FOR "LAZY" EXHUAST GAS SPEED WHEN EXHUAST VOLUME IS LOW!! (as it is in the low and mid range).

However, if you dont even begin to tip into your power band untill about 3700, you may consider short tubes. High RPM operation in a big motor (not talking about 4 bangers here), yeild LARGE amounts of exhuast gas discharge. THIS is where you need the larger diameter tubes, to get more volume out of the cylinder. THIS is where you can loose power due to pumping losses on the exhuast stroke. In an ideal world, your exhuast system would be soooo effective, that by the time that pistion STARTS coming up on the exhuast stroke, your ports and headers will have scavenged all exhuast gas out of the cylinder during the duration of the exhuast pulse. If there's no sizable amount to push out, there in a low pressure area in the cylinder (also known as vacuum), almost causing a "pulling up" affect on the piston. So, your not loosing power by pushing, your gaining power by being pulled.

Hope this helped!


This is a quote from a physics site I use, just some of the research I've been up to. From the sounds of it LT's will help power from low-mid range (ie. situations like daily driving/towing), I however do not care about my power in these areas of the powerband. My intention is to take the truck to the track a few times this summer, on 20 inch general grabber UHP's and see what it can lay down, these will be the only times that the truck will be seeing the high rpms and from what I know shorties can be beneficial (maybe not as good as LT's but so marginally close that it wont matter) enough to make the $650 for coated JBA's worth it for me. Also I want to get coated headers as I intend to switch to the efan and want to try to keep the heat down a little.

Thoughts?
I found a similar article :

Quote:

Short vs. Long Tubes
The guiding principle behind headers is called "scavenging." By carefully choosing the length, diameter, and sometimes the way the header tubes are paired, the velocity of the exhaust gas pulses can create a "siphoning" effect behind them as they travel down the tubes. That helps clear more exhaust gas from the cylinder and creates a partial vacuum. When the intake valve opens, the cylinder can "inhale" a larger charge of air. With more air, an increased charge of fuel can be added for more power. Headers may also reduce pumping losses, making it easier for the piston to "push" the exhaust from the cylinder and out the pipe. Scavenging also works as the exhaust pulses move down the exhaust pipes.
Generally, the longer the individual tubes, the more scavenging occurs at lower speeds. In theory, this gives the long-tube headers a longer, broader torque curve that starts at a lower rpm. The shorties will be more suited to higher rpm, and perhaps stellar at one narrow rpm band where all the physics come together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtcanada View Post

I've dynod the truck with an intake and programmer at 320whp (uncorrected) thats at 3000ft lol, the 1/4 mile that I'll be going to is about 2200ft, so hopefully with the cam and exhaust I'll be able to get close to the 400whp (peak) and then hit that 100shot on a window switch. Time will tell.
Did you order/get your Headers yet?

Where in Alberta are you located?
...almost sounds like you're heading to Castrol raceway? (2200' elev.) if so, hope to see ya there.

I've got a lowered 10' 4x4 RCSB , been to the track almost every weekend since I got my Ram in 2010.





I'm liking the direction your going, I had the same thoughts last year when JBA announced the Cat4Ward headers,
I was one of the first to order them in June but production delays (3 times) meant the track would be closed for the season before they arrived, order cancelled.


Like you I've been torn between LT's and Shorties for the last two years.
To get ARH's, with international shipping, then another $300 to get them ceramic coated runs close to $2k.

I've finally committed to a set of JBA's (again) just the other day, Silver Ceramic Coated for $555
should have them in a couple weeks. UPS international Shipping with brokerage fees was only $60

If the JBA's even get me half the HP/TQ of the LT's for about a Quarter of the price, I'll be happy.
(JBA dyno chart for a 3G hemi showed a 15HP gain) to me its about HP per $ spent and only adding HP/TQ where I need it.

I've already got gobs of low end torque with my current modest mod list and an Edge 3000 stall TC, (1.8's for my 60') with shitty 3.55's.
What I really need is a little more mid/top end HP now without breaking the bank.

My best run last year was 13.8/98.5 at 2500'+ DA(13.4/102 corrected)
if the shorty headers dont help shave another 10th (or two) and add a couple MPH to my trap,
I'll just spray the shit out of it and shoot for 12's instead going long tubes and still only getting 13's.
__________________

Murdered.. Lowered.. Alcohol Injected ..Blowered! 500WHP

Last edited by BlackRamHemi; 03-16-2012 at 05:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-19-2012, 11:16 PM
rtcanada's Avatar
rtcanada rtcanada is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: AB, Canada
Age: 23
Posts: 172
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2010 Dodge Ram
Trim Level: RT
Color: Black
Rep Power: 0
Rep:10
rtcanada is on a distinguished road
Default

Hey, sorry for the long wait on a reply. I was trying to work out a deal on an 01 audi S4 that backfired pretty hard. Looks like I'll have the truck for another season. I've yet to order the headers but I'll likely get the shorties at the end of the month.

Unfortunately I think Castrol is Edmonton? I'm south of Calgary in the Lethbridge area so I'll likely be going to Medicine Hat to run the 1/4 mile. I like your mod list I just can't believe how much the 4.10's help get these trucks off the line. I feel like LT's would be great but would be even less beneficial too me then you as I already spin coming off the line

Maybe if time permits one of us could swing north or south and do some runs with the trucks. I'm hoping to catch atleast one of the Alberta meets so hopefully I'll see you out there.

Side note: tax rebate submitted (2-3g coming in the mail) and I got my tune for my camshaft sitting on my computer, just waiting for the trinity and my truck
__________________
Got Milk?
Got 4.10s!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-20-2012, 01:35 PM
BlackRamHemi's Avatar
BlackRamHemi BlackRamHemi is online now
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Age: 51
Posts: 2,528
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2010 Ram RCSB 4x4
Trim Level: Sport
Color: Brilliant Black
Rep Power: 7
Rep:539
BlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Cool,

Hey, if you want to knock almost $100 off your JBA order,
AutoAnything discount codes are "WELCOME" for 10% off new orders, or "LOYALTY" for 15% off for registered members.
....that's what got my silver ceramic coated JBA's from $653 down to $555

I'm going to spend my tax refund $ on a gear swap soon,
likely going to 4.10's or 4.56's and a TruTrac if I can get a good deal locally.

No traction issues for me, even with my effective gear ratio of 4.30:1
on my 4 little sticky Mickey DR's , 3000 stall, 4WD Auto (AWD) and Bubbye!




I'm already hanging door to door with the SRT8 Jeeps, even beat em when I cut a perfect light.
2WD R/T's and SRT10's better be running slicks or they're chasing my rear bumper for the first 1000' and are lucky to catch me at the traps

__________________

Murdered.. Lowered.. Alcohol Injected ..Blowered! 500WHP

Last edited by BlackRamHemi; 03-20-2012 at 01:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-20-2012, 02:07 PM
wvcoolvinilla wvcoolvinilla is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 754
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2011 Ram 1500 Outdoorsman 4x4
Trim Level: Outdoorsman - Rambox
Color: Black Crystal - Gray
Engine: 2009-20?? 345ci (5.7L) Hemi V8 390hp 407lb/ft
Rep Power: 6
Rep:83
wvcoolvinilla will become famous soon enough
Default

Some really good information here about Shorties vs LT's I gues it all comes down to money in the end. The one thing I think is missing is that the collector lenght on LT's is where TQ is gained or lost.. don't know if there is suffient information to see where this has ben applied to the Lt's out in the market.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-20-2012, 02:22 PM
BlackRamHemi's Avatar
BlackRamHemi BlackRamHemi is online now
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Age: 51
Posts: 2,528
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2010 Ram RCSB 4x4
Trim Level: Sport
Color: Brilliant Black
Rep Power: 7
Rep:539
BlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of light
Default

I found a dyno chart for a 3G 03' 5.7L Hemi Ram 1500 with JBA shorites...

gain of 15 HP, 14 ft-lbs Torque : (pretty consistent across the entire RPM range)

link: http://products.jbaheaders.com/asset...3hemi_dyno.jpg




I suspect the gains would be as good or better on a 4G, especially if you also swap out the crushed factory Y pipe for a Magnaflow ($27)

Here's the JBA 3G shorty vs the stock 3G 5.7L cast iron exhaust manifold off an 03' Ram 1500



The stock exhaust manifold on a 4G Hemi Ram looks even More restrictive than the 3G's iron log




The dyno chart on the ARH site shows the LT's gain 16 HP, 41 ft.-lbs Torque

(link: http://www.americanracingheaders.com...t_Hemi_Ram.htm )



It certainly seems that low end torque gain is the most prominent advantage for LT's,
and is consistent with the info posted above and in many header articles I've found on line.

But is that really worth 4 TIMES the price over the shorties??? I guess its up to the individual to decide. Maximum performance vs the most Bang-for-your-Buck
Personally, I chose to swap in really good $500 Torque Converter to pick up my low end torque ...and it dropped 3 tenths off my 60' and I've got the track slips to prove it.
I just need my mid track and top end to pick up without breaking the bank.

I wish other manufacturers would step up and give ARH a run for their money in the LT market,
3G Hemi Rams have lots of options to choose from, none of them over $750. Pacesetter LT's can be found under $500 on ebay

BBK makes LT headers for 05'-12' 5.7L/6.1L Hemi cars
( Charger, Challenger, Magnum, SRT8 and Chrysler 300) Ceramic Coated for just $599 !!!

Link: http://www.bbkperformance.com/produc...t-headers.html

While I was on BBK's website, I discovered they now make a 4G Hemi Ram Shorty too, looks similar to JBA's but even cheaper with larger dia primaries ...at $299 (chromed) or $399 (ceramic coated)
Too bad (for me) they wont work on a 4x4 Ram, 2WD only. I even had a local dealer here (JB's Power Center) that could get a ceramic coated set to me for $399 (Can$) no shipping charge, if I was willing to wait for the next shipment.

BBK shorty unequal length 2004-11 Ram 5.7L Hemi exhaust headers are designed for direct bolt-on performance to the existing stock exhaust system.
Each BBK exhaust header system are CAD designed and are manufactured with 1 3/4" CNC mandrel bent tubing for unrestrictive airflow and a one piece laser cut flange 3/8" for added strength and durability.
ALL BBK exhaust headers are pressure tested to ensure leak free performance.



Link: http://www.bbkperformance.com/produc...t-headers.html



are ARH's LT's $1000-$1300 more just for a cross pipe, a couple cats and Y pipe?
I already have those ....so why should I pay $1000 more just to replace something I already have that works fine?

My Magnaflow Y pipe (part#10778) was only $27


Bottom line, anything's better than stock! and the Shorties will do me fine for now,
I'll upgrade to LT's only when they drop below $900, then sell my shorties to offset the cost.
__________________

Murdered.. Lowered.. Alcohol Injected ..Blowered! 500WHP

Last edited by BlackRamHemi; 03-20-2012 at 07:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-21-2012, 03:12 AM
03lowram 03lowram is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 125
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2011
Trim Level: Badass
Color: Silver
Engine: 2009-20?? 345ci (5.7L) Hemi V8 390hp 407lb/ft
Rep Power: 0
Rep:19
03lowram is on a distinguished road
Default

Im thinking about going with BBK shorties for the my ram. I can get a good deal on those and an Edge 3000 stall for around $900.
Im just waiting for someone else to give some feed back on the BBK headers before I order them. Havent seen any dyno charts or anything!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-21-2012, 03:39 AM
rtcanada's Avatar
rtcanada rtcanada is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: AB, Canada
Age: 23
Posts: 172
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2010 Dodge Ram
Trim Level: RT
Color: Black
Rep Power: 0
Rep:10
rtcanada is on a distinguished road
Default

I still think I'm going to go with the JBA shorties, next couple of weeks will tell.

As for drag racing, with my summer tires on my "effective" gear ratio is 4.45:1 and I've had almost no issues hooking up on the street with the 295/45r20's as for the track I imagine I'll have to ease into it a little.

BlackRamHemi - just from your sig it looks like your power adders are the intake/TB, programmer and exhaust. Have you ever ran the 1/4mile without your DR's? I'm curious about the difference in times as I figure you should pull off the line fine in 4wd with performance tires. I've seen plenty of awd cars that weigh less then our trucks running crappy tires and coming off the line hard. However I would agree that going to a smaller tire should help your times based on the change in gearing (also noticed this switching to tiny tires on my eagle talon tsi). I cant wait to get out to the track this summer.
__________________
Got Milk?
Got 4.10s!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-21-2012, 10:23 AM
BlackRamHemi's Avatar
BlackRamHemi BlackRamHemi is online now
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Age: 51
Posts: 2,528
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2010 Ram RCSB 4x4
Trim Level: Sport
Color: Brilliant Black
Rep Power: 7
Rep:539
BlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of lightBlackRamHemi is a glorious beacon of light
Default

I just got my UPS tracking info for my JBA's,
will have them in my hands this Friday (Mar.23th), order was placed last Thursday (Mar.15).
I've never had anything, even within Canada, processed and shipped that quickly! Very Impressed

I have run my street tires at the track too, its a full half second slower (14.498)
But the 305/50R20 Terra Grappler's are quite a bit larger and heavier than stock Good-for-a-Years, over 90lb ea. on my 20' stock wheels
(30 pounds per corner more than my DR's on 17's = 120lbs more weight, more rolling mass, crappy 3.55 ratio, truck sits 3" taller (less aerodynamic)



Here's the difference between running a good set of DR's vs my bud's 10' QC Ram on stock GoodYears,
both 4x4 trucks with 3.55 gears,tuner, intake and exhaust. video from 2010 (GoPro camera on his front bumper)



My 4G 4x4 has several options at the track ...




2WD when there's ideal conditions, great track prep, perfect temperature.

4WD Lock if I get way too much spin off the line and traction on the track is poor
it's by far the best launch but stays engaged for the entire run and runs 2 to 3 tenths slower.
You can try manually switching back to 2WD on the fly, but I think you have to
back off the throttle to "un-load" the drivetrain before it will actually shift back to 2WD...not good.

4WD Auto if I only get a little spin off the line, the next run I'll turn on 4WD -Auto, this is an AWD setting
and only engages an electronic clutch in the transfercase when rear slip is detected, one small chirp from the rear tires at full throttle launch and the front hooks and I'm Gone!
Then once all 4 wheels are moving the same speed it releases the clutch, disengages the front drive shaft and sends 100% power to the rear wheels again.
Runs just about as quick as 2WD with perfect track conditions, maybe 1 tenth slower in AWD.

My best kill running against a faster lighter AWD car was a WRX STi, it was so close though, he snoozed at the tree then couldn't catch me until it was too late
__________________

Murdered.. Lowered.. Alcohol Injected ..Blowered! 500WHP

Last edited by BlackRamHemi; 03-21-2012 at 10:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-21-2012, 12:08 PM
rtcanada's Avatar
rtcanada rtcanada is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: AB, Canada
Age: 23
Posts: 172
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2010 Dodge Ram
Trim Level: RT
Color: Black
Rep Power: 0
Rep:10
rtcanada is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks for the info on the DR's. I've been debating getting a set for this year but I think I'm going to hold off. Getting a big set of DR's is just too expensive and getting a small set would give me a ridiculous gearing. Only time will tell how the 2wd R/T gets through the 1/4 mile. Looks like its going to be cammed before I go though...
__________________
Got Milk?
Got 4.10s!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Advertisement






All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:00 PM.


= Copyright RamForumZ.com a Gigathreads.com Network Site =Ad Management by RedTyger
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vB.Sponsors


=Gigathreads Network=
CLUBS MOPAR NATION DSM GPMM MAMM JAM
DIESEL Diesel Forum      
CHEVY Chevy Camaro Forum Chevy Volt Forum    
CHRYSLER Chrysler 300C Forum      
DODGE Dodge Avenger Forum Dodge Caliber Forum Dodge Challenger Forum Dodge Charger Forum
  Dodge Circuit Forum Dodge Hornet Forum Dodge Magnum Forum Dodge Nitro Forum
  Dodge Ram Forum Dodge Dakota Forum Dodge Durango Forum Dodge Dart Forum
FORD Ford Raptor Forum Ford F150 Forum Ford F100 Forum  
JEEP Jeep Forum      
PONTIAC Pontiac G8 Forum      
SRT SRT Viper Forum SRT Cuda Forum