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Custom Dodge Ram Performance Mods - Engine - 5.7 HEMI V8 Discuss modifying your Dodge Ram with Performance Parts and Accessories!
Factory Spec: 5.7-liter HEMI® V8 engine - 390 horsepower, 407 lb-ft of torque.


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  #11  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:32 PM
dusterman dusterman is offline
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just to let you know he got 28 mpg on highway compared to his 25 from before. and he showed me dyno vids of them going from 87 octane to 93 octane with out tuning and they got more horsepower. doing this setup. soooo... i guess it works
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  #12  
Old 04-20-2012, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Trust me it won't do what you're saying it does. You can reset the computer which will reset the fuel and timing maps but as soon as you start driving it's going to take input from the sensors and apply correction values to multiply all the maps by, this is to adjust the maps to where they needs to be for proper A/F ratio. It has nothing to do with octane. There is no sensor on the vehicle that reads octane ratings, or adjusts for octane ratings. The only thing even close to that is the knock sensors which will pick up spark knock(detonation/pinging) if you run too low an octane and then it will retard timing.
What ^^^ said. Pulling fuses will only reset ECU at best.
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  #13  
Old 04-20-2012, 04:01 AM
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I dunno guys, I see the potential.

Yes, obviously they are just resetting the ECU. If they continually run Premium, it would do the same thing over a longer period of time anyhow. The ECU is just adjusting the motor to run on the higher octane which would respond better in mileage and performance IN A ENGINE CAPABLE OF BENEFITING FROM PREMIUM FUEL. Which the Camaro ss AND Hemi. ARE capable of!

And of course the car cant tell the Octane rating of fuel, but it can and does adjust to the way the motor is running on whatever grade fuel is being ran through it so in reality it does respond to different octane ratings...

Higher octane fuel does burn slower and has a higher energy content. Thats the whole point of race gas= prevent detonation and provide more energy.

I agree that a honda civic -for example- would not benefit at all from premium and just waste your money. But it would not detrimentally affect it either. That is not the case with the Hemi. It IS a performance engine
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  #14  
Old 04-20-2012, 04:18 AM
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I guess you could always ground your throttle body... Buwaaaaaaaahahahahha
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  #15  
Old 04-20-2012, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snrusnak View Post
Yeah this is not going to work (on any vehicle, including the camaro). The computer can't recognize octane rating. It's a VERY complicated process to establish octane rating, I doubt the camaro has the equipment on board the vehicle lol.

Running higher octane than required is not only a waste of money but it slightly hurts performance (almost negligible) but it also causes gunk/carbon buildup. Run the lowest octane possible without causing detonation/pinging.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snrusnak View Post
Trust me it won't do what you're saying it does. You can reset the computer which will reset the fuel and timing maps but as soon as you start driving it's going to take input from the sensors and apply correction values to multiply all the maps by, this is to adjust the maps to where they needs to be for proper A/F ratio. It has nothing to do with octane. There is no sensor on the vehicle that reads octane ratings, or adjusts for octane ratings. The only thing even close to that is the knock sensors which will pick up spark knock(detonation/pinging) if you run too low an octane and then it will retard timing.
Both the above coments

Quote:
Originally Posted by dusterman View Post
just to let you know he got 28 mpg on highway compared to his 25 from before. and he showed me dyno vids of them going from 87 octane to 93 octane with out tuning and they got more horsepower. doing this setup. soooo... i guess it works
To many variables to consider. Fuel economy is subjective, it takes several fill-ups to get a somewhat accurate reading. I would be interested in seeing what he gets after a few tanks calculated.
Upon a little research the LS3 is supposed to run on premium fuel (91) but due to knock sensors and ECM's it will run on a lower octane fuel. If you run it on lower (87) the ecm will adjust timing to compensate for the lower octane and so it doesnt rely on the knock sensor so much. The end result is lower power output. By pulling fuses 5 and 20 and filling up with the recommended 91 octane the ecu will allow full timing which will increase performance. Pulling those fuses does nothing more than allow the ecu to relearn your driving and what fuel is being run. It cant read the octane rating, but it knows to advance or retard the timing based upon the input from the knock sensor and what not.
So basically you are restoring the lost power caused by low octane fuel. Nothing new, it's been done since the early 90's.
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  #16  
Old 04-20-2012, 09:24 AM
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So basically you are restoring the lost power caused by low octane fuel. Nothing new, it's been done since the early 90's.
Exactly.

New cars have knock sensors that will retard timing if you run too low of an octane(reducing output). So if you take a vehicle designed to make say 400hp on 91 octane and fill it up with 87 octane, it is going to cause detonation which the computer will adjust for by retarding timing, and you may end up with 390hp. Then if you reset the computer and put the proper fuel in of course you will make more power.

Like he said ^, your RESTORING power lost by using the wrong fuel, not GAINING power.

It's all relative. If I run my truck on 80 octane for 5 years, then fill it up with 87(what it's designed for), did I GAIN power? IMO no, I just got it back to what it's supposed to be...
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  #17  
Old 04-20-2012, 09:39 AM
Black1 Black1 is offline
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HIgher octane is required for higher compression engines. It has nothing to do with timing.
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  #18  
Old 04-20-2012, 10:06 AM
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^that is true about higher octane being required with higher compression, but it is also true with ignition timing advance. That's why when you run a 91 or 93 tune you have to run higher octane, because the power gains come from advancing the timing.
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  #19  
Old 04-20-2012, 11:07 AM
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As has been pointed out, pulling the fuses (basically the same thing as disconnecting the battery cable over night) will reset the ECM/PCM so it has to re-learn all it's settings. This does NOT change the base programming which is designed around a specific fuel octane, but will force a quick learn around the variables at the time it's done. If these variables include a better grade of gasoline, it will not expedite the timing retard process.

If you do noting at all, you will achieve the same results, but will take longer as the ECM/PCM is not quick to change from it's learned settings to new settings unless a sensor detects something like detonation which will force an instantaneous change.

IMO, it is a good practice to do a full ECM/PCM reset every once in awhile. Especially if you have a significant change in variables the include a change in fuel, change in altitude, major change in air temperature, etc. This will give you optimized performance sooner then if you wait for the program to respond over time.

I have no doubt your father in law saw results, as I would expect the same from any computer controlled engine. However, the results were limited to that of the base programming plus pre-programmed modifications resulting from the changed variables; in this case being better fuel. This is especially noticeable when changing to a fuel the engine is designed for. Exceeding that octane rating has no benefits and often results in poorer performance.
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  #20  
Old 04-20-2012, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad12kx View Post
the results were limited to that of the base programming plus pre-programmed modifications resulting from the changed variables; in this case being better fuel. This is especially noticeable when changing to a fuel the engine is designed for. Exceeding that octane rating has no benefits and often results in poorer performance.
Bingo! If your vehicle was designed to run 91 and you've been running 87, filling up with 91 then doing an ECU reset will have an effect.

If you car is designed for 87 and you fill with 91, an ECU reset will have no effect and you'll be a little poorer to boot.
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