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  #11  
Old 02-22-2014, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by glcarter View Post
With the current setup you cannot put a full time locker in the front end, or even a limited slip. You would not be able to turn. The guys on the Cummins forum are reporting 1-2 mpg and I figure the difference in torque between gas and diesel should make even a more profound difference.

With gas you will get 1-1.5mpg gains

Even with an open differential you are turning everything all the time when in 2 wheel drive. Just try turning the drive shaft with the truck on the ground. This is why older trucks used lock outs.

Another big advantage is the fact you get rid of the junk unitized wheel bearings. I had mine on my last truck go out at 80,000 miles and left me stranded on the side of the road waiting on a tow truck. The started making noise 20 miles before they went out and I was still 25 miles from home when they failed.

yup, but the hubs are not maintenance free. They require regularly repacking the bearings and replacing the seals (25k/annually), but they can last a lifetime.

Figure I can repack and check my bearings every 30,000 mile when I am changing spark plugs and not have worry about the front wheel falling off.

Also it will allow the u-joints in the front axle to last a lot longer as they will not have to turn while the trucks turning. I am going to replace the current u-joints with serviceable ones while I am at it also.

Yes, replace your ujoints. remeber to go one size larger when you replace so you dont have to use the cap spacers.

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  #12  
Old 02-22-2014, 07:19 PM
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Do you know the part number for the u joints.

Have heard some state an improvement in steering, have you noticed any difference?
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  #13  
Old 02-22-2014, 07:21 PM
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Do you know the part number for the u joints.

Have heard some state an improvement in steering, have you noticed any difference?

I dont know the part number off the top of my head, should be in your instructions. If not give Spyntec a call.

As for steering, yes there is a difference, mostly at full lock but noticable throughout. You will feel less torque steer and at full lock will not feel any binding.
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:58 PM
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No spacers for the u joints that I can find in the kit. Seen on the Cummins site that Spyntech quit supplying them as they decided they were not truly needed.
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  #15  
Old 02-22-2014, 08:59 PM
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Cool, must be a recent change.
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  #16  
Old 02-23-2014, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glcarter View Post
With the current setup you cannot put a full time locker in the front end, or even a limited slip. You would not be able to turn. The guys on the Cummins forum are reporting 1-2 mpg and I figure the difference in torque between gas and diesel should make even a more profound difference.

That is correct, there are no lockers for the front end so the minor advantages are not worth the trouble. If you were able to install a locker it would be worthwhile to install the locking hubs. On my 04 3500 I had 0 mileage gain. It was a Cummins, I can't speak for the gas engine.

Even with an open differential you are turning everything all the time when in 2 wheel drive. Just try turning the drive shaft with the truck on the ground. This is why older trucks used lock outs.

As far as I am concerned everything turning is a good thing. It keeps it all well lubricated and helps to keep out moisture with the heat buildup when turning everything. As I noted above, in my experience there was no mileage gain.

Another big advantage is the fact you get rid of the junk unitized wheel bearings. I had mine on my last truck go out at 80,000 miles and left me stranded on the side of the road waiting on a tow truck. The started making noise 20 miles before they went out and I was still 25 miles from home when they failed.

All you have to do is shake the tires when you have them off the ground to see if the bearings are getting sloppy. With your new bearings you will have another maintenance item to keep up with. I found I had to repack them every time I got into water that came above the centerline of the axle.

Figure I can repack and check my bearings every 30,000 mile when I am changing spark plugs and not have worry about the front wheel falling off.

Also it will allow the u-joints in the front axle to last a lot longer as they will not have to turn while the trucks turning. I am going to replace the current u-joints with serviceable ones while I am at it also.

The u_joints won't be rotating is correct. That means they will not building up any heat and any air pocket in them can collect moisture that will not be heated up and removed. The u-joint will always be turning in the same plane when you steer so all the wear will be in the same spot in the u-joint without the shafts rotating.
All this is minor disadvantages but, in my opinion, worth considering. I still believe if there were a real mileage gain the OEM would still use lockout hubs. Don't forget, you still lose the shift on the fly abilities with the lock out hubs too. I know people that forgot about locking in the front axles from time to time and the front gears rusted up and ruined the differential. Good luck with yours, you may be happy with them, I was not.
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  #17  
Old 02-23-2014, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonT View Post
All this is minor disadvantages but, in my opinion, worth considering. I still believe if there were a real mileage gain the OEM would still use lockout hubs. Don't forget, you still lose the shift on the fly abilities with the lock out hubs too. I know people that forgot about locking in the front axles from time to time and the front gears rusted up and ruined the differential. Good luck with yours, you may be happy with them, I was not.
So far you are the only person that I have heard of to report no increase in fuel economy.

It does not take that much time to service wheel bearings, and even if you are not as anal as I am about maintenance as I am. I know of a lot of older trucks that went 100,000+ miles without having the front wheel bearing serviced.

If you have the hubs locked in prior to needing them you still retain the shift-on-the-fly. On my older trucks a lot of time I would lock the hub in at the end of November and unlock them in March, unless I was traveling long distances on dry highway.

Figure the factory went away from the due to the fact that most people buy trucks for cars and are too lazy to mess with lockouts, and auto lockouts did not have a good record for reliability when off road. Dodge had problems with vacuum hoses and GM had problems with wires getting unplugged by brush. Ford auto lockouts caused enough problems that that factory even would replace them with manual at the owners request. My brother had that done on his 1985 Ford.
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  #18  
Old 02-23-2014, 11:22 AM
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That is correct, there are no lockers for the front end so the minor advantages are not worth the trouble. If you were able to install a locker it would be worthwhile to install the locking hubs. On my 04 3500 I had 0 mileage gain. It was a Cummins, I can't speak for the gas engine.

Not true, the standard PW locker is available to beinstalled as well as an ARB locker.


As far as I am concerned everything turning is a good thing. It keeps it all well lubricated and helps to keep out moisture with the heat buildup when turning everything. As I noted above, in my experience there was no mileage gain.


Turning everything is rotating mass that uses fuel. Simply putting the vehicle 4wd on occasion will turn everything out to the knuckles without having to lock the hubs. It really takes about 10 seconds and if you cant do something as simple as that periodically that is just pretty lazy.

All you have to do is shake the tires when you have them off the ground to see if the bearings are getting sloppy. With your new bearings you will have another maintenance item to keep up with. I found I had to repack them every time I got into water that came above the centerline of the axle.

Everyones experience on this will very. Loose bearing are the most common indicator, I have also had bearing simply lock up on me with no warning signs. I have also been through many water crossing with no issues. When I repack the bearings annually I simply replace the seals (about $40) and dont worry for another year.

The u_joints won't be rotating is correct. That means they will not building up any heat and any air pocket in them can collect moisture that will not be heated up and removed. The u-joint will always be turning in the same plane when you steer so all the wear will be in the same spot in the u-joint without the shafts rotating.

First, the ujoints are sealed. If your getting moisture in yours you need to replace them. The ujoint will also wander over time so they will not always be turning on the same plane. Even if they dont, with no power to them there is no load to speak of so no real wear to speak of. The steering load is carried by the ball joints, not the ujoints.
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  #19  
Old 02-23-2014, 11:27 AM
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Figure the factory went away from the due to the fact that most people buy trucks for cars and are too lazy to mess with lockouts, and auto lockouts did not have a good record for reliability when off road. Dodge had problems with vacuum hoses and GM had problems with wires getting unplugged by brush. Ford auto lockouts caused enough problems that that factory even would replace them with manual at the owners request. My brother had that done on his 1985 Ford.

All of what you said is true, but the primary reason the factorys went away from lockout hubs is nothing more than cost. Unit bearings are a single piece sourced from an outside supplier that cost the same or less than lockouts, instillation time is minimal (large savings there), there is no maintenance (another large savings) and replacement is less that an hour job (again more savings). Combine that with the fact that for the majority of drivers they are adequately strong and reliable and its a win for the manufacturer.
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  #20  
Old 02-23-2014, 06:21 PM
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Battlerattle, did your kit come with snap rings for the end of the stub shaft? Seen Mile Marker says in the instructions that you can run without them. Did you fit them? Thought I would pick a couple 1 1/2" snap rings up at the parts store, figure it should be less than $3.

Suppose Spyntech must figure that Mile Marker supplies everything for installing the hubs. And, Mile Marker probably figures for a replacement/upgrade part you should have them already.

Also I seen that Mile Marker included both a standard internal snap ring to retain the lockout body and a spiral snap ring, which did you use?
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