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  #1  
Old 10-08-2012, 08:03 PM
looka looka is offline
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Default Do I need a new tranny?

Hey guys. Newbie here. Need a little assistance.

I've got a 2006 Hemi. 145k miles:

Throwing codes:
P0700-Transmission Control
P0734-Gear ratio error in 4th
P0735-Gear ratio error in 5th
P1790-Fault immediately after shift

Truck shifts violently. Now in limp mode. Had tranny serviced less that 2 months ago.

What do you think? Any response is appreciated.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:03 AM
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P0700 Transmission Control System Malfunction
http://www.obd-codes.com/p0700
P0700 is an informational code only. It doesn't point to a direct fault in the engine, only a general fault in the transmission. More diagnosis is necessary to identify what the transmission fault is. This requires a scan tool that will communicate with the transmission module.

P0734 CHRYSLER - Gear Ratio Error In Fourth Gear
http://engine-codes.com/p0734_chrysler.html
possible cause, DIRT or one of several other things

P0735 CHRYSLER - Gear Ratio Error In Fifth Gear
http://engine-codes.com/p0735_chrysler.html
posible cause, DIRT or one of several other things

the P1790 could be one of several things

Personally, i think whoever did the transmission service, did a half assed job, but i don't know beans about it

Dirt could be metal filings, etc
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:39 AM
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P1790 means that the slippage (in 4th or 5th gear) happened just after a shift. The P0734 and P0735 codes mean there was slippage within the trans in both 4th and 5th gears. That likely points to a bad OD clutch pack.

Was this a sudden failure? Worked great one day, and then all of a sudden when it tried to shift into 4th (or 5th) it slipped, maybe shifted back and forth a few times, then went into limp-in? Or have you noticed odd shifting over time, that gradually got worse? Does the trans now slip (or Neutral out) when at speed?

I doubt that a bad trans service would cause these problems. Could be a number of issues (as I said, most likely is a burned OD clutch pack, which requires pulling the trans and tearing it partway down to repair). But could also be a bad solenoid, bad wiring, bad speed sensor, etc.

One thing you can try yourself: Start the engine, then disconnect the main 23-way electrical harness at the transmission (see instructions below). This should put you in "full limp-in" (4th gear only, when in Drive), so the truck should feel really sluggish from a stop. So, in full limp-in, does the trans slip? Does the engine rev up like it's in Neutral, or does it pull OK but just feels like someone has the brakes on?

The main transmission electrical harness is on the driver's side of the trans. The 23-pin connector is on the solenoid / valve body and sticks vertically up out of the trans, a few inches above the oil pan rail.

The harness connector has a locking lever and a secondary latch. The transmission side of the connector is square and has two small round posts sticking out of opposite sides of the connector (one towards the front of the vehicle, one towards the rear). The locking lever on the harness (which is probably gray in color) wraps around three sides of the connector. The latch is on the driver's side. The two sides that wrap around have slots that engage with the two posts on the transmission connector. When the connector is unplugged, the locking lever (latch side) is down (toward the open end of the harness). When you plug it into the trans, the slots engage with the posts. Then, you push the locking lever latch bar up, which rotates the locking lever and clamps the harness connector down into the trans connector (by grabbing and pulling on those posts). I know this is hard to visualize... sorry but I don't have a picture.

To disconnect the harness, you first need to release the secondary lock. This is typically a red plastic piece (on the driver's side of the connector, just below the locking lever latch bar, which will be at the TOP of the connector when it's locked). You'll need to slide this red secondary lock either up or down (I'm not sure which, probably down but I'm not positive) before you can unlock the lever. Once that's done, reach up above and behind the center of the locking lever. The latch that holds the locking lever is just behind the face of the center of the locking lever (there's about 1/4 inch space between them). Put your finger behind the face of the locking lever, and push it and the latch APART. You need to push the latch (the piece just behind the top of the locking lever) in, towards the transmission (away from the locking lever) in order to release it. Once the locking lever pops free, rotate it down as you lift the harness up and off.

When you go to re-connect it, make sure the locking lever is DOWN (towards the open end of the harness connector) so it will engage the posts on the trans connector, then plug it in and rotate the locking lever up til it latches. Then slide the secondary lock into position to retain it.

So try it with the harness disconnected, and see what you get. Then we can take it from there....
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:03 AM
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Thanks very much TransEngineer! You have no idea how much this sort of advice is appreciated.

There was a 5th code pulled when the failure happened but I didn't include it in my initial post because I assumed it was unrelated. It's code C1011- left front wheel speed sensor erratic.

To answer your initial question, this was sudden failure.

I will perform your test in about an hour and get back to you with the results(by the way, thanks for the indepth instructions on removing the connector.) If the trans slips in full limp mode, what does this mean? If it revs while in gear, what does that mean?

Thanks
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:57 PM
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Ok. Test Complete. Started the engine, removed the connector and drove. There was no slippage during the test drive in full limp mode. The truck simply started out sluggishly as though the breaks were applied. What do you think?
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:32 PM
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Sounds like exactly what happened to mine...
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiLonestar View Post
Sounds like exactly what happened to mine...
So what did you end up doing to fix it?
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looka View Post
So what did you end up doing to fix it?
I replaced it with a heavy duty rebuilt one with a shift kit and a deep pan and used it as an excuse to buy a 1 ton trans cooler and Circle D converter.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looka View Post
Ok. Test Complete. Started the engine, removed the connector and drove. There was no slippage during the test drive in full limp mode. The truck simply started out sluggishly as though the breaks were applied. What do you think?
This sounds like good news to me! No slippage in limp-in means the problem is not the OD clutch pack itself (since it holds OK when in full limp). The question now becomes, why does it slip when in normal driving?

In full limp (with the connector unhooked) you have no power at all to the trans solenoids. This gives you direct gear (in Drive), with the UD and OD clutches applied. The UD solenoid is a normally applied solenoid, so turning the electrical power OFF turns the clutch (hydraulically) ON. That's why it's on in limp-in. The OD clutch is actually controlled by TWO solenoids (OD and MS) when in Drive. The MS solenoid is normally applied (like UD), while the OD solenoid is normally vented (electrical power off turns the clutch hydraulically off). The OD and MS output pressures are fed through a check ball that acts as an "OR" valve, so that if either one is "on" (hydraulically) the clutch will be applied.

The solenoids are all fed from a common 12V feed. The TCM (or PCM) controls the ground side of each solenoid, to turn it on or off (electrically). I believe that, in 4th and 5th gears, we use both the OD and MS solenoids to fill the OD clutch, then we turn them both OFF electrically (and MS then supplies pressure to keep the OD clutch applied). I'm guessing you could have a problem with the MS solenoid control (the driver chip in the TCM/PCM), or the wiring for the MS solenoid. For example, if something in your harness was shorting the MS solenoid wire to ground, that would turn the MS solenoid ON electrically, which would turn the OD clutch OFF hydraulically, which would give you slippage in 4th/5th gears. But when you disconnect the harness, you take away the 12V feed (and the ground, too), so MS is guaranteed to be OFF electrically, and then you get no slippage.

One problem with this theory is that MS also controls the LR clutch in Reverse. So if MS were screwing up all the time, you would also have no Reverse. Since apparently Reverse works OK for you, there may be something else going on.

But the good news is, it is likely something electrical (outside the trans) that is causing your problem. There could also be an internal electrical short within the solenoid module itself (which is inside the trans), but that would be rare, and the solenoid can be replaced without pulling the trans (you only have to drop the pan and the valve body assy).

I'd recommend that you take it to a competent dealer and have them check it out. They have a diagnostic tool called a Trans Simulator that can be hooked up (in place of your transmission) to the various wiring harnesses, and verifies whether the TCM/PCM and wiring are functioning OK or not. They can also download the DTC Event Data (a block of data that gets written into memory when a trans fault is set, showing what was happening at that moment [engine speed, turbine speed, output speed, line pressure, solenoid states, etc.]). That can be helpful in tracking down the actual root cause. But make sure you tell them that you forced it into full limp-in and there was no slippage. This confirms that you do NOT have a blown OD clutch piston seal, fried OD clutch pack, etc. (if you did, it would slip even when the harness was disconnected).
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:24 AM
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Thanks, TE. So it's sounding like something electrical. Unfortunately the nearest Dodge dealer is 2 hours away. Will a Ford or GM dealer scan it?

I'm gonna pull the valve body today and inspect the solenoid pack. Is there anything I should look for, any way to clean it?

By the way, after I forced it into to full limp-in and drove a few times it only threw 2 codes; P0700 and P0765-UD solenoid circuit fault. Any thoughts on this? Also, how do I get it out of full limp-in mode? Thanks again.

Last edited by looka; 10-10-2012 at 08:47 AM.
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