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  #11  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:06 AM
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The death wobble can also happen on stock trucks, not sure it is related to a lift or leveling specific kit. Apparently some are more prone than others; and death wobble has existed for many years on many brands of trucks, not just Dodge's. I can not stand the low front clearance of the factory truck, especially with a bull bar. I had 2002 2500 that you almost needed a step ladder for, then a 2003 than was higher than this 2010 I currently have. I haven't had death wobble in any of them. I would say, in your case, lift it and see what happens...it really is unpredictable as to whether it will happen.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking that might be the case, but wish more were posting success to build confidence to those of us considering.

All the wobble feedback on leveling kits has my head spinning. After reading so many posts, I'm more confused and less confident than ever that we can reliably lift these trucks without introducing uncertainty and risk.

I'm not looking for the cheapest. I'm looking for the sure thing, headache and worry free bullet proof package. I'd prefer not to go up to six inches, but I'd do it if it reduces the issues.

Also, why do lift kits tend to have better results than leveling kits? Despite reading hundreds of posts over the last week, I feel like I know less than when I started.

Thanks again for any insight and feedback.
Lifts tend to have better results because they all usually have a lowering bracket for the differential, in return it aligns or keeps your 1/2 shaft turning on a level plane, with no angle. It's usually the angle of the axle at a certain degree that will cause the CV joint to bind slightly when turning which is brought on by leveling kits since they don't come with drop brackets. It is when you engage your truck in 4WD, that most experience the "vibration".
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otterdriver View Post
Lifts tend to have better results because they all usually have a lowering bracket for the differential, in return it aligns or keeps your 1/2 shaft turning on a level plane, with no angle. It's usually the angle of the axle at a certain degree that will cause the CV joint to bind slightly when turning which is brought on by leveling kits since they don't come with drop brackets. It is when you engage your truck in 4WD, that most experience the "vibration".
This is good info. You'd think I would have found this somewhere in the hundreds of posts, but nope. Maybe someone can write up a guide for the site to help with the descriptions, expectations, pro's and con's.

Thank you VERY much for the explanation.

For the 1500 4x4, I'm being told we basically are limited to three "basic" kit options in the current market:

- Level at 2 to 3 inch
- Lift at 4 inch
- Lift at 6 inch

I realize some have gone higher than 6, but it sounds like a combination of more than a single kit to accomplish.

More questions for anyone:

1. Is there no "lift" kit to get 2 to 3 inches to accomplish a less risky upgrade than a leveling kit that puts the angle on the CVs and causes the wobble?

2. How bad is the 4" lift in terms of getting in and out for daily use? If I went this route, I don't want to need a repelling rope.

3. When going with larger tires than stock, even let's say 33" tires (305 55 R20), how much more sluggish is the driving experience? I don't have any experience with lifted trucks and larger tires, but I hear some say it feels very sluggish and mushy compared to stock.
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  #14  
Old 11-28-2012, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
More questions for anyone:

1. Is there no "lift" kit to get 2 to 3 inches to accomplish a less risky upgrade than a leveling kit that puts the angle on the CVs and causes the wobble?

2. How bad is the 4" lift in terms of getting in and out for daily use? If I went this route, I don't want to need a repelling rope.

3. When going with larger tires than stock, even let's say 33" tires (305 55 R20), how much more sluggish is the driving experience? I don't have any experience with lifted trucks and larger tires, but I hear some say it feels very sluggish and mushy compared to stock.
1. I believe that Mopar makes a 2-3" lift kit as well as their leveling kit. I think the lift runs around $900?? The Mopar 4" lift kit a rebranded Superlift kit and is what i currently have installed. I love it. But it is about $2000+

2. I guess it all depends on how tall you are (how long your legs are) and how spry you are. For me, I'm 6'1 and find getting in my truck with 4" lift and 35" tires pretty easy. I put one leg in, grab the handle and it takes just a little more effort to get in than when the truck was at stock height.

3. Again, I have heavy 35" MT's and aftermarket wheels, so my experience may be different than a 33" tire/wheel, but it's true there is a little more sluggishness when starting from a stop. Even with the 3.92's I have. But... there is still plenty of power once you get into the powerband. You could always get a tuner and then this problem will go away. BTW I believe the stock tires are 33".
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  #15  
Old 11-28-2012, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking that might be the case, but wish more were posting success to build confidence to those of us considering.

All the wobble feedback on leveling kits has my head spinning. After reading so many posts, I'm more confused and less confident than ever that we can reliably lift these trucks without introducing uncertainty and risk.

I'm not looking for the cheapest. I'm looking for the sure thing, headache and worry free bullet proof package. I'd prefer not to go up to six inches, but I'd do it if it reduces the issues.

Also, why do lift kits tend to have better results than leveling kits? Despite reading hundreds of posts over the last week, I feel like I know less than when I started.

Thanks again for any insight and feedback.
Lift kits eliminate this because they come with proper drop brackets that keep axles and the drive train in its correct form and in more cases than not, better than stock.

This wobble is again, more rare that anything and some trucks get it more than another. It is typically found in trucks that level 2.5" or higher

Set the Bilstein at 2.1 it will settle to 1.95-2"
Or set it to 1.4 and it will drive MUCH better than stock.

But I would not worry about all the negativity. You will have to read further into it and see what the real problem was.

usually, bad alignment will do this as well.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by latitud View Post
The death wobble can also happen on stock trucks, not sure it is related to a lift or leveling specific kit. Apparently some are more prone than others; and death wobble has existed for many years on many brands of trucks, not just Dodge's. I can not stand the low front clearance of the factory truck, especially with a bull bar. I had 2002 2500 that you almost needed a step ladder for, then a 2003 than was higher than this 2010 I currently have. I haven't had death wobble in any of them. I would say, in your case, lift it and see what happens...it really is unpredictable as to whether it will happen.
What he ^^^ said!
But set it at 2.1 if you are worried about this.
Worst case you can always go up or down one if you'd like.
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  #16  
Old 11-28-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
This is good info. You'd think I would have found this somewhere in the hundreds of posts, but nope. Maybe someone can write up a guide for the site to help with the descriptions, expectations, pro's and con's.

Thank you VERY much for the explanation.

For the 1500 4x4, I'm being told we basically are limited to three "basic" kit options in the current market:

- Level at 2 to 3 inch
- Lift at 4 inch
- Lift at 6 inch

I realize some have gone higher than 6, but it sounds like a combination of more than a single kit to accomplish.

More questions for anyone:

1. Is there no "lift" kit to get 2 to 3 inches to accomplish a less risky upgrade than a leveling kit that puts the angle on the CVs and causes the wobble?

- There probably are but I haven't heard or looked into this as it is probably just as costly as doing a 4" or 6" lift and then i makes no sense.
If a leveling kit, the max I would look at is 2.5.
As metnioned above if Bilsteins, set them to 2.1


2. How bad is the 4" lift in terms of getting in and out for daily use? If I went this route, I don't want to need a repelling rope.

4" lift is fine. heck even a 6" lift was fine with stock mopar steps.
My 2 kids were able to get it without issue.


3. When going with larger tires than stock, even let's say 33" tires (305 55 R20), how much more sluggish is the driving experience? I don't have any experience with lifted trucks and larger tires, but I hear some say it feels very sluggish and mushy compared to stock.
The larger you go in diameter and width the more sluggish you will feel. But it will also depend on your gearing and will also depend on what you consider is sluggish....
What gears do you have?
3.55 or 3.92?
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  #17  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:01 PM
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I can't thank everyone enough for the feedback. It is helping to build confidence.

RE: larger tires and sluggish drive

Three years ago when I first bought the truck, I had some 305/55R20 Nitto Terra Grapplers installed and it drove like it was in sand (on dry pavement). It felt very sluggish and squishy, and had a bit of a hum at speed. Being at stock height, it also rubbed at full deflection left or right. I drove less than 20 miles stop and go, at speed, etc and took them straight back to have 275/60R20 Michelin LTX A/T2 installed.

Those Michelin's have been outstanding! Blast through snow, track on ice (as good as can be expected), cut through heavy rain and are very responsive on dry highway with no vibration or noise. I realize going larger than stock is going to increase tire weight and surface area and not be as "crisp", but I was genuinely disappointed at how those 305 Nittos felt.

Aside from this, I have no experience driving with larger tires on any truck. I may go to a dealer who has a lifted truck with larger tires just to see what it feels like.

Are there tires in the 305 size that have good ride quality and don't feel sluggish? The local 4x4 shop I have been talking with about the Bilstein 5100s is suggesting 305 Pro Comp Xtreme A/T for good ride quality. I don't know if they just push that brand, or if this is a good recommendation. Again, I really appreciate feedback and opinions.

Last edited by Razor; 11-28-2012 at 12:05 PM.
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  #18  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
I can't thank everyone enough for the feedback. It is helping to build confidence.

RE: larger tires and sluggish drive

Three years ago when I first bought the truck, I had some 305/55R20 Nitto Terra Grappler installed and it drove like it was in sand (on dry pavement). It felt very sluggish and squishy, and had a bit of a hum at speed. Being at stock height, it also rubbed at full deflection left or right. I drove less than 20 miles stop and go, at speed, etc and took them straight back to have 275/60R20 Michelin LTX A/T 2 installed.

Those Michelin's have been outstanding! Blast through snow, track on ice (as good as can be expected), cut through heavy rain and are very responsive on dry highway with no vibration or noise. I realize going larger than stock is going to increase tire weight and surface area and not be as "crisp", but I was genuinely disappointed at how those 305 Nittos felt.

Aside from this, I have no experience driving with larger tires on any truck. I may go to a dealer who has a lifted truck with larger tires just to see what it feels like.

Are there tires in the 305 size that have good ride quality and don't feel sluggish? The local 4x4 shop I have been talking with about the Bilstein 5100s is suggesting 305 Pro Comp Xtreme A/T for good ride quality. I don't know if they just push that brand, or if this is a good recommendation. Again, I really appreciate feedback and opinions.
I am not understanding....you mentioned when you first bought the truck you had 305's on it and they you said you have no experience with larger tires. that sort of contradicts each other

As for the Nitto Terra, I have heard nothing but good things about them. I have also driven a truck with Nitto Terra's and they have minimal to zero hum. If you found those to have hum then there is no way you can handle Nitto Trail or Toyo MT which are the quietest MT tires

That said, you rubbed because you probably didn't run spacers. Did you?

Try out BFG, they make great tires. They are on the pricier side though
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  #19  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastNugly View Post
I am not understanding....you mentioned when you first bought the truck you had 305's on it and they you said you have no experience with larger tires. that sort of contradicts each other

As for the Nitto Terra, I have heard nothing but good things about them. I have also driven a truck with Nitto Terra's and they have minimal to zero hum. If you found those to have hum then there is no way you can handle Nitto Trail or Toyo MT which are the quietest MT tires

That said, you rubbed because you probably didn't run spacers. Did you?

Try out BFG, they make great tires. They are on the pricier side though
Sorry for the confusion. When I bought the truck brand new it had crappy Goodyear stock tires. Within the first three days of owning it, I took it in for new tires and "tried" the 305 Nittos, but was horribly disappointed with the ride. Within the same hour, I took them back and got the stock size Michelin tires installed. Those tires now have about 45K miles and I want to replace them before going on a few upcoming trips where snow and mud are involved. As part of that decision process, I am considering a lift or level kit and more aggressive slightly larger tires. That's what has led me to this whole review and research process. I have not had any experience in driving a lifted truck or with larger than stock tires (other than that 20 miles test on the Nittos).

Correct, no spacers were used. It's also worth pointing out that that shop, Discount Tires, drove me insane on this truck and other vehicles regarding their inept ability to balance wheels and tires. After numerous attempts to get them to do it correctly, I ended up at another shop where I paid for lifetime balance and alignment and never had any issues. I think the balancing system at that DS store must have been complete garbage (or operator error). I overheard other customers complaining about balance issues too (vibration at speed), so who knows. This Truck, my Challenger, and my wife's Suburban all came out of there with new tires that same year (same two month period actually - ouch!) and had to be rebalanced a few times each before I gave up and went elsewhere to get them dialed in correctly. I bring this up, because perhaps the negative Nitto experience could have been related to this shop not installing them correctly (balance, air inflation, etc).

The easy thing would be to just slap a new set of same size (stock) Michelins on. The great unknown are the things you fine folks have been reviewing with me regarding the level and lift and larger tires. Again, sorry for any confusion.

Last edited by Razor; 11-28-2012 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:12 PM
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Random thought:
Did Dodge purposely lower the front to help avoid death wobble?
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