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  #81  
Old 03-19-2013, 04:12 PM
Asur Asur is offline
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Here is a very interesting Article on Oil.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/
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  #82  
Old 03-19-2013, 05:48 PM
Hermes1 Hermes1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Asur View Post
True, you know your going to meet there warranty term, but what about after the warranty, but I still wonder how much more or less protection the engine gets with these thinner oils. I also agree about the MDS, changing your viscosity may trigger MDS to Mal-function, but what about all the Hemi engines in Europe, they don't have 5w-20 and from what I have seen, most are running 0w-30 over there if not 5w and 10w-30. Wish I knew what is said in the owners manual of a Chrysler 300 Hemi as the viscosity requirement.


I did some more checking on European Forums, seems many are running there 4.7liter engines with 0w-30, 5w30 and 10w-30 oils depending on time of year and location, many with the 5.7 Hemi's are disabling there MDS with tuners and running higher viscosity oils in there engines. Mostly cause they can barely find 5w-20 oil locally, but also many seem to say that its just too thin an oil for engine and rather skip using MDS and run there engine longer. I also seen a few in Australia with the same conclusions.
A thinner oil certainly raises a concern for adequate protection and makes sense to me, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around a manufacturer requiring a viscosity which is not adequate or will cause long term damage. With this in mind and because I do not want to create potential warranty issues, I am ok with 5w-20 weight oil. The US manufacturers finally figured out, they need to engineer and build vehicles to last, so why compromise it. As to other countries importing the same vehicles and requiring the 5w 30 oil, I wonder if manufacturers account for this in vehicles designated for European & Australian markets and make the necessary engineering adjustments. I know in order to sell vehicles in other countries or in the USA from abroad, certain changes are made to not only account for vehicle safety regulations etc., but market variations. One example, many if not all US made vehicles use metric rather than SAE sockets and such, because they could not sell to other parts of the world who use metric. A friend of mine whose Dad owned a motorcycle repair shop and was a skilled mechanic, use to say to customers who tried to second guess, or thought they could make their motorcycles better; "You think you know more than 50 years of engineering". I for one, while having a decent mechanical aptitude, am not an engineer or a skilled mechanic so I see no point in second guessing Chrysler in this case.

Last edited by Hermes1; 03-19-2013 at 05:51 PM. Reason: Content
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  #83  
Old 03-19-2013, 06:21 PM
Asur Asur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermes1 View Post
A thinner oil certainly raises a concern for adequate protection and makes sense to me, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around a manufacturer requiring a viscosity which is not adequate or will cause long term damage. With this in mind and because I do not want to create potential warranty issues, I am ok with 5w-20 weight oil. The US manufacturers finally figured out, they need to engineer and build vehicles to last, so why compromise it. As to other countries importing the same vehicles and requiring the 5w 30 oil, I wonder if manufacturers account for this in vehicles designated for European & Australian markets and make the necessary engineering adjustments. I know in order to sell vehicles in other countries or in the USA from abroad, certain changes are made to not only account for vehicle safety regulations etc., but market variations. One example, many if not all US made vehicles use metric rather than SAE sockets and such, because they could not sell to other parts of the world who use metric. A friend of mine whose Dad owned a motorcycle repair shop and was a skilled mechanic, use to say to customers who tried to second guess, or thought they could make their motorcycles better; "You think you know more than 50 years of engineering". I for one, while having a decent mechanical aptitude, am not an engineer or a skilled mechanic so I see no point in second guessing Chrysler in this case.

Good point, well said
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  #84  
Old 03-19-2013, 06:35 PM
Dutch Dodge Dutch Dodge is offline
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I have been following this discussion and I have the following questions:

Right before I left for Europe, I took my Truck to the dealership for an oil change. After the oil change I drove around 500 miles with it before the truck went on transport to Europe... It has been 6 months after the oil change and I am still a good 600 miles away from the 3000 Miles oil change interval recommended from the dealer (Besides the fact that I am 3 months over the recommended 3 month interval)

The Truck sits more than it drives, sadly enough... when I drive it, I warm up the engine before I hit the highway and don't do anything crazy ( I've gunned it maybe twice in a blue moon). Now for the questions:

1. Does it do any harm that I am over the 3month interval? I mean, I am still within the 3000 Mile interval and always change the oil before the intervals. This is the first time I go over the interval month wise.

2. It is difficult to find 5W20 oil in Europe and when you do, you pay a pretty penny for it. Can I use the 5W30? I never tow, the temp. in my country doesn't go over 88 (for more than 5 days in a row over a timespan of 2 months of the year) and I haul almost nothing and when I do it isn't heavy.

Planning on doing my oil change next weekend or the weekend after, i'll take it to a local shop specialized in American muscle cars and trucks but I would like y'alls 2 cents on it.

Dutch Dodge
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  #85  
Old 03-19-2013, 06:47 PM
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Hermes1, So why then are the blocks, crankshafts, rods, rod/main bearings, pistons, piston wrist pins and the piston rings the same in 1500/2500/3500 Hemi's? But RAM says 5W20 for MDS 1500's and 5W30 for the rest.
You would think RAM would want the better MPG for the 2500/3500 using the 5W20 for better fleet CAFE ratings, wouldn't you???
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  #86  
Old 03-19-2013, 06:49 PM
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Dutch Dodge, Do you know what oil the dealer used over there? 5W20 or ??????
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  #87  
Old 03-19-2013, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldhp View Post
Hermes1, So why then are the blocks, crankshafts, rods, rod/main bearings, pistons, piston wrist pins and the piston rings the same in 1500/2500/3500 Hemi's? But RAM says 5W20 for MDS 1500's and 5W30 for the rest.
You would think RAM would want the better MPG for the 2500/3500 using the 5W20 for better fleet CAFE ratings, wouldn't you???
Very nice thought, if all the components are all the same, why wouldn't they use the same 5w20.
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  #88  
Old 03-19-2013, 09:08 PM
AJKirton AJKirton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermes1 View Post
A thinner oil certainly raises a concern for adequate protection and makes sense to me, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around a manufacturer requiring a viscosity which is not adequate or will cause long term damage. With this in mind and because I do not want to create potential warranty issues, I am ok with 5w-20 weight oil. The US manufacturers finally figured out, they need to engineer and build vehicles to last, so why compromise it. As to other countries importing the same vehicles and requiring the 5w 30 oil, I wonder if manufacturers account for this in vehicles designated for European & Australian markets and make the necessary engineering adjustments. I know in order to sell vehicles in other countries or in the USA from abroad, certain changes are made to not only account for vehicle safety regulations etc., but market variations. One example, many if not all US made vehicles use metric rather than SAE sockets and such, because they could not sell to other parts of the world who use metric. A friend of mine whose Dad owned a motorcycle repair shop and was a skilled mechanic, use to say to customers who tried to second guess, or thought they could make their motorcycles better; "You think you know more than 50 years of engineering". I for one, while having a decent mechanical aptitude, am not an engineer or a skilled mechanic so I see no point in second guessing Chrysler in this case.
I agree, and I am an engineer, and have worked for such companies as Daimler, jaguar, ford, Honda. I have worked with aftermarket companies as well.

It is known in the industry that cars that last forever sells more cars, and means better sales figures. I guarentee that no car company is designing cars to only last past the warranty.

As for the different viscocities, you have multiple contributors. Mds is a major contributor.

Why heavier oil in the 2500-3500? Look at the vehicle weight, and their designed purpose. You have to look at impact loads as well. Those motors need oil that can take a larger impact.

I very rarely get upset, but engineering is my life, and I am a quality engineer to boot. I deal with this stuff daily.
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  #89  
Old 03-19-2013, 09:33 PM
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What do you mean by larger impact?

I found this from a service tech answering oil PSI question.
According to Chrysler's dealer service information, normal hot engine oil pressure on the 5.7 engine used in their trucks is 4 psi minimum at hot idle and should be between 25 to 110 psi at 3000 RPMervice manual for 2012 Rams.

Wow, That is HUGE swing in oil pressure!
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  #90  
Old 03-19-2013, 10:02 PM
Hermes1 Hermes1 is offline
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Originally Posted by oldhp View Post
Hermes1, So why then are the blocks, crankshafts, rods, rod/main bearings, pistons, piston wrist pins and the piston rings the same in 1500/2500/3500 Hemi's? But RAM says 5W20 for MDS 1500's and 5W30 for the rest.
You would think RAM would want the better MPG for the 2500/3500 using the 5W20 for better fleet CAFE ratings, wouldn't you???
A fair question, for which I have no answer. I was unaware the 3 levels carry the same inards, but only the 1500 requires the 5w-20 flavor. Interesting.
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