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  #21  
Old 03-15-2013, 09:15 AM
Cookie Monster Cookie Monster is offline
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I would have to agree with crabjoe. usually the payload rating is most dependent on the suspension followed by the frame. The biggest issue when comparing GVWR, Curb Weight and Payload between manufactures is their is no one industry standard used. So comparing a F-150 to a Ram 1500 or a GMC 1500 is like comparing apples to oranges to pears.

I'm blown away that in North American they (gov) have not mandated the auto industry to use one standard weighing system. Though when it comes to it and you get your pickup with or without a trailer pulled in to a weigh station they simply ignor the sticker anyways and do an actual weigh in. so this is simply why the govverment isn't pushing to mandate a standard auto manufactures use.

So to me that sticker on the side doesn't really mean anything other then the GVWR. what really matters is getting your truck weighed in and documented using a full tank. If thats what the goverments go by anyways thats what I would go by. Sure the sticker will be close but an actual payload but payload and curb weight is best done with a weigh in as it is accurate and is simply why they (gov) do it.

Last edited by Cookie Monster; 03-15-2013 at 09:25 AM.
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  #22  
Old 03-15-2013, 09:50 AM
Ford Apostate Ford Apostate is offline
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I thought all the different standards were with how they figured tow ratings. I would have thought payload rating was pretty straight forward or are you referring to how they figure GVWR? I can't find a good explanation of how that is done.
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  #23  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Apostate View Post
I thought all the different standards were with how they figured tow ratings. I would have thought payload rating was pretty straight forward or are you referring to how they figure GVWR? I can't find a good explanation of how that is done.
The GVWR is the maximum for the vehicle regardless of any upgrades made to the suspension/tires etc.
One of the major factors for GVWR is the braking system The DOT determine braking distances that must be adhered to. That being said they also set the standards for trailers.

So for an interesting example.
Say you had any one of our trucks with a single axle trailer loaded with yard mulch.
Truck had one driver and a full tank of gas = 6200 lbs
Trailer gross weight was 3,500 lbs tounge weight = 350 lbs.
Adjusted weight of the truckis now 6550. ( Tounge weight+vehicle)
Gross combined weight is 10,050 lbs.GCWR
These # are all within spec and reasonable and the braking system needs to be able to stop this safely.
Different Example
Same truck 6200lbs
Dual axle travel trailer with electric brakes 6000 lbs tounge weight 350 lbs
Adjusted truck weight 6550 (same as before)
Gross combined weight is now 12,550 lbs.
By law that 6000 lb TT would have supplmental braking as such it would be easier on the truck than the first case from a stopping standpoint. Fuel economy would be worse. More weight more work.

So why can't I carry the additonal weight in the truck if the brakes can handle it in the first palce. More than likely it the individual axle weight rating from those suppliers. I'm an old Ford guy and for those that are familar with them there were two 250's. The heavy duty with solid front axle and the wishbone front end. The bearing set difference between the two was one tell tail on the difference in load handling ability amoung others.

The point that I was trying to make is there are several factors dertermining the spec's for a vehicle. If you always assume you have a supplemental breaking system then you would be unsafe in the first example.

Hope I didn't add more mud to the water.
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  #24  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Apostate View Post
Where did you read this? It was my understanding that the ZF weighed 30 lbs less. Of course I can't explain their fancy math where they make everything weigh less and yet the overall package comes out weighing more.
Yes the ZF transmission apparently weighs 30 lbs less than the old transmission which is why it adds 30 lbs to the payload capacity. There is a very useful .pdf document - that I don't have at the moment - that lists all the payloads, weights and tow figures for the basic Ram 1500 configurations (including Rambox which costs 150 lbs of payload BTW). It does not yet include the CC long box configuration. These figures are of course only a best case scenario as they don't include a number of options that could be included from the factory.

For those who advocate a HD model to solve inadequate payload capacity, I view it as using a hammer to kill a mosquito. A similarly equipped Ram 2500/3500 hemi would cost me nearly 20k more to purchase (incentives play a big part in this) and extract a significant on-going mileage penalty. A Ford F150 has an optional Max. Trailer Tow Package and a Heavy Duty Payload Package that can provide greater than 2300 lbs payload which would be well more than I require but for a comparable price to the Ram 1500. I still much prefer the Ram for other reasons.

Some facts: There is no way to increase GVWR. It is set in stone by the manufacturer. The only way to "increase payload" is to decrease the weight of the truck itself. Regardless of the actual limits of the truck or modifications made to the truck, it is the payload capacity listed on your door sticker that is the legal maximum you can carry and can be used by your insurance company to decline coverage in the event of an accident while over-loaded. It can be used by roadside inspection to impose significant fines if inspected while overloaded.

Never go beyond payload capacity to the point where you exceed front or rear axle ratings. Ram 1500 axle ratings do provide a bit of leeway over GVWR so they are presumably not the weak point.
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  #25  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:51 PM
Chromag Chromag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl-z View Post
For those who advocate a HD model to solve inadequate payload capacity, I view it as using a hammer to kill a mosquito. A similarly equipped Ram 2500/3500 hemi would cost me nearly 20k more to purchase (incentives play a big part in this) and extract a significant on-going mileage penalty. A Ford F150 has an optional Max. Trailer Tow Package and a Heavy Duty Payload Package that can provide greater than 2300 lbs payload which would be well more than I require but for a comparable price to the Ram 1500. I still much prefer the Ram for other reasons.
$20k more? I priced out similarly equipped 1500 vs 2500 on NADA.

2013 1500 2WD Big Horn w/ 8-speed (mandatory for orders according to nada), 3.92 axle, anti-spin diff (std on 2500), luxury grp, brake controller (std on 2500), side steps, tow mirrors, uconnect 8.4a, backup camera and park assist - MSRP $41,040

2013 2500 2WD Big Horn w/ 4.10 axle, luxury grp, side steps, tow mirrors, uconnect 8.4a, backup camera and park assist - MSRP $42,100

Unless you're getting some massive rebates that's nowhere near a $20k difference. I'm planning on towing a travel trailer that weighs in at between 7,000 and 8,000 lbs so the 1500, even with weight distribution, just won't be good enough. I really wish the rebates were better for the 2500, though.

EDIT: Oops - I didn't include remote start on the 1500. It comes with the luxury group or one of the 2500 packages.

Last edited by Chromag; 03-15-2013 at 03:00 PM.
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  #26  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:52 PM
Ford Apostate Ford Apostate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl-z View Post
Yes the ZF transmission apparently weighs 30 lbs less than the old transmission which is why it adds 30 lbs to the payload capacity.
Sorry, that was a reading fail on my part. I read it as adding 30 lbs to the weight of the truck. I even quoted that part and still misread it.
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  #27  
Old 03-15-2013, 05:03 PM
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smokey988 smokey988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromag View Post
$20k more? I priced out similarly equipped 1500 vs 2500 on NADA.

2013 1500 2WD Big Horn w/ 8-speed (mandatory for orders according to nada), 3.92 axle, anti-spin diff (std on 2500), luxury grp, brake controller (std on 2500), side steps, tow mirrors, uconnect 8.4a, backup camera and park assist - MSRP $41,040

2013 2500 2WD Big Horn w/ 4.10 axle, luxury grp, side steps, tow mirrors, uconnect 8.4a, backup camera and park assist - MSRP $42,100

Unless you're getting some massive rebates that's nowhere near a $20k difference. I'm planning on towing a travel trailer that weighs in at between 7,000 and 8,000 lbs so the 1500, even with weight distribution, just won't be good enough. I really wish the rebates were better for the 2500, though.

EDIT: Oops - I didn't include remote start on the 1500. It comes with the luxury group or one of the 2500 packages.

The rebates he was mentioning are in Canada. We receive great rebates on the 1500 but very little on the 2500.
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  #28  
Old 03-15-2013, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokey988 View Post
The rebates he was mentioning are in Canada. We receive great rebates on the 1500 but very little on the 2500.
Precisely.

There's actually "only" about $16.5K difference between similarly equipped Laramie 4x4 1500 and 2500 in Canada though it is hard to make a direct comparison because the 2500 is not available with certain options - like bucket seats. In any event I don't need 3500 lbs of payload. What I do need is about 1500 lbs. - something that used to be commonplace in all makes of half tons. What a 2013 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 CC with Rambox can offer me is something less than 1150 lbs. How much less I don't know because no one here posts their payload with options.
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  #29  
Old 03-15-2013, 05:36 PM
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To me what would be interesting is looking at what an exactly equipped Bighorn vs. Outdoorsman would be able to carry. I always thought wheels/tires played a big role hence, Ram makes it a point to put smaller wheels with heavy duty weight capacity tires on the Outdoorsman because it caters to the RV/camper and hunter. When I replaced tires on my current truck I wanted to make sure it was a beefier "truck" tire because I pull a camper. The tires have a thicker sidwall, etc. to be able to support the weight and handle sidewall impacts better when off road.
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  #30  
Old 03-15-2013, 09:36 PM
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Here is the picture of the door of my Tundra, 5.7liter, quad cab, 6.4 foot bed. I think. I have no idea if I have done this correctly.
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