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Custom Dodge Ram Performance Mods - Engine - 5.7 HEMI V8 Discuss modifying your Dodge Ram with Performance Parts and Accessories!
Factory Spec: 5.7-liter HEMI® V8 engine - 390 horsepower, 407 lb-ft of torque.


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  #11  
Old 09-07-2013, 09:07 AM
HemiExpress2013 HemiExpress2013 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CdnoilRAM View Post
The guys at Bully's have a great product.



Firstly, you don't need to port match with any of the ported 85mm or 87mm TBs as none of them out there are ported behind the butterfly (with the exception of the Fastman 84mm true-bore), which means that the exit port diameter is still 80mm, and the truck's intake bore is actually 84mm.

When it comes to volume flow, yes the stock 80mm will support the need at high RPM, but a ported body is designed to increase intake velocity. Only a true-bore will increase volume flow.
I wish that were true about not porting behind the butterfly but is not. I have Moes 87mm and I know someone with bully's 87mm. Both are not polished and really rough. it's like a washboard inside the venturi. Matt at Moes said the .8hp increase with polishing didn't justify the added cost of polishing. if you open the butterfly and scribe a mark on the intake manifold you will see the lip. That's the way it is with the 2013. I can't speak for other years. Had to dremel that lip off because from what I understand it creates "reversion" at the tail of the venturi.

Last edited by HemiExpress2013; 09-07-2013 at 09:12 AM.
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  #12  
Old 09-07-2013, 12:11 PM
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Here are my messurements for detail. The ported TB on top 87mm and necks down to a final at 84mm. The intake manifold neck wasjust shy of 83. Had to dremel back lip off
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  #13  
Old 09-07-2013, 12:34 PM
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They may have made a design change with the '13 TB because of the manifold design differences. I had been talking with the guys at Bully's when they were designing their TBs for the earlier years about their port design as I'm an aerospace engineer
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  #14  
Old 09-07-2013, 04:00 PM
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Moes definitely changed their ported TB design recently for the '13's. I personally wouldn't have looked at the manifold thinking the same thing without being made aware of it myself. Glad to have the info because removing one choke point only to create another kinda defeats the mod. Calipers confirmed the dimensions of each point.
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  #15  
Old 09-07-2013, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiExpress2013 View Post
I wish that were true about not porting behind the butterfly but is not. I have Moes 87mm and I know someone with bully's 87mm. Both are not polished and really rough. it's like a washboard inside the venturi. Matt at Moes said the .8hp increase with polishing didn't justify the added cost of polishing. if you open the butterfly and scribe a mark on the intake manifold you will see the lip. That's the way it is with the 2013. I can't speak for other years. Had to dremel that lip off because from what I understand it creates "reversion" at the tail of the venturi.
The increase from polishing didn't justify the added cost? I would love to know what it actually costs to CNC one of these units. I am all for vendors making a profit on a great product but the cost of a stock unit vs what the ported sells for makes it difficult for me to justify buying one and I would truly love to have an 87mm unit on my truck.
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  #16  
Old 09-07-2013, 07:45 PM
HemiExpress2013 HemiExpress2013 is offline
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Here is a step by step procedure I did today porting my intake manifold for Moes 87mm fit.
1) disconnect battery...
2) Disconnected MAF and TB, took air tube off TB and air box...
3) removed cover...
4)opened butterfly and stuck my finger in to feel the TB and manifold fit, sure enough lip toward the rear.
5) Outlined the lip with fine tip white paint marker my wife uses in her hobby.
6) Removed TB
7) stuffed a clean tee-shirt into the manifold, closing it off and making sure the PCV opening is also covered.
8) took very small flat head screw driver and removed the rubber gasket, you'll notice a slot on driver side. that's were I stated the removel and then used my fingers to gently remove gasket.
9) took my calipers and check Dia of TB, top was 87mm and bottom 84mm, then checked intake Dia which was just shy of 83mm. This confirmed it all.
10)took my dremel with 120 grit sanding drum and began removing the white line. the intake is only about 1/4 deep at this part went the whole depth,
11)took 320 grit sandpaper and removed any hanging debris and used my finger to knock off anything on top.
12) wiped it down with denatured alcohol to get at anything fine particles.
13)used vacuum to get the debri out.
14)pulled the shirt out and vacuum long time using my fingers to get any remaining plastic. use a flash light to help. also making sure to get the pcv port.
15)Reinstall...

Did it help??? I know that there's no lip at the venturi tail, so it isn't creating any turb. in velocity. it must have helped. Why spend the money to create another choke point. this will only take you another 10 minutes tops. simple. no worries. that is if your having the same issue...
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  #17  
Old 09-07-2013, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daytona1445 View Post
The increase from polishing didn't justify the added cost? I would love to know what it actually costs to CNC one of these units. I am all for vendors making a profit on a great product but the cost of a stock unit vs what the ported sells for makes it difficult for me to justify buying one and I would truly love to have an 87mm unit on my truck.
You would be surprised at the cost of the machine, the 5 axis cnc machines start around 250k for a decent used unit (and thats a steal new they are easily 4-10 times that depending on the manufacturer) so you have the cost of the machine, then you have the r and r, then you have the time creating the design for the machine to do the work, the time to pay an operator, etc, etc on top of the cost of the of the factory TB, then shipping from mopar, shipping to the machine shop that does the port for us, shipping back to us, and then shipping to the customer. Starts to add up after a while . With that said this is the process that almost every vendor uses that sells ported throttle bodies as the cost of the machines and an operator are way to much, if everyone used their own machine to do it the costs would easily be double or triple to the customer if not more depending on the colume of TB's that they sell.

Hope this helps you enderstand/justify the cost, oh and adding polishing raises the cost more as well that is why many of us do not offer TB's that are polished I only know of a few companies that have a polished throttle body and 2 of them only polish the outside the other I believe is the fast man (I might be mistaken on that so don't quote me about the fastman)

Thanks
Jeremiah
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  #18  
Old 09-07-2013, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiExpress2013 View Post
Here is a step by step procedure I did today porting my intake manifold for Moes 87mm fit.
1) disconnect battery...
2) Disconnected MAF and TB, took air tube off TB and air box...
3) removed cover...
4)opened butterfly and stuck my finger in to feel the TB and manifold fit, sure enough lip toward the rear.
5) Outlined the lip with fine tip white paint marker my wife uses in her hobby.
6) Removed TB
7) stuffed a clean tee-shirt into the manifold, closing it off and making sure the PCV opening is also covered.
8) took very small flat head screw driver and removed the rubber gasket, you'll notice a slot on driver side. that's were I stated the removel and then used my fingers to gently remove gasket.
9) took my calipers and check Dia of TB, top was 87mm and bottom 84mm, then checked intake Dia which was just shy of 83mm. This confirmed it all.
10)took my dremel with 120 grit sanding drum and began removing the white line. the intake is only about 1/4 deep at this part went the whole depth,
11)took 320 grit sandpaper and removed any hanging debris and used my finger to knock off anything on top.
12) wiped it down with denatured alcohol to get at anything fine particles.
13)used vacuum to get the debri out.
14)pulled the shirt out and vacuum long time using my fingers to get any remaining plastic. use a flash light to help. also making sure to get the pcv port.
15)Reinstall...

Did it help??? I know that there's no lip at the venturi tail, so it isn't creating any turb. in velocity. it must have helped. Why spend the money to create another choke point. this will only take you another 10 minutes tops. simple. no worries. that is if your having the same issue...
We are aware of this on a few different engines, the difference in gain from doing this really isn't much at all but every little bit helps and for the short amount it takes to correct it it is a lot easier/cheaper to the end user if you have this issue then for a new design of a TB, we are currently working on a solution to rectify this on our side but we have not been able to come up with a way to know which vehicles have that small lip and which ones don't and the ones that do are a much smaller margin than the ones that do not, however we are aware of this and working on a solution in the meantime anyone who has this issue as described above this is a perfect walkthrough on how to fix and it doesn't take much time at all

GREAT RIGHT UP HemiExpress2013!

Thanks for sharing

Jeremiah
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  #19  
Old 09-07-2013, 08:07 PM
HemiExpress2013 HemiExpress2013 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daytona1445 View Post
The increase from polishing didn't justify the added cost? I would love to know what it actually costs to CNC one of these units. I am all for vendors making a profit on a great product but the cost of a stock unit vs what the ported sells for makes it difficult for me to justify buying one and I would truly love to have an 87mm unit on my truck.

it is a expensive upgrade for 10-15 rwhp if your lucky, but an important upgrade to my overall plans. I've had the truck 6 months now. did all the external stuff I wanted. Now I've got the 87mm TB, Volant CIA with a ram air snorkel, I went with that over Veraam air grabber because the filteration(power core) is better and last 100,000 miles. But I may in the future go with the Air grabber. I just didn't want to cut the front cover to fit the product at this point, but up to 30 hps is hard to deny yourself. I could only go with Bully dog tuner for '13. But I definitely will upgrade to Hemifever when it comes available. Exhaust is next, first muffler, then going with AR headers with cats. Edge Converter is mandatory and hopefully by then someone will offer a upgraded Valve body for '13. I really wish I would save for the Stage III tranny, 0-60 in 3.5-4.5 sec is worth it. From there, I don't know but having some fun with the whole mid life crisis thing.
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  #20  
Old 09-07-2013, 08:35 PM
HemiExpress2013 HemiExpress2013 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bully's Performance View Post
You would be surprised at the cost of the machine, the 5 axis cnc machines start around 250k for a decent used unit (and thats a steal new they are easily 4-10 times that depending on the manufacturer) so you have the cost of the machine, then you have the r and r, then you have the time creating the design for the machine to do the work, the time to pay an operator, etc, etc on top of the cost of the of the factory TB, then shipping from mopar, shipping to the machine shop that does the port for us, shipping back to us, and then shipping to the customer. Starts to add up after a while . With that said this is the process that almost every vendor uses that sells ported throttle bodies as the cost of the machines and an operator are way to much, if everyone used their own machine to do it the costs would easily be double or triple to the customer if not more depending on the colume of TB's that they sell.

Hope this helps you enderstand/justify the cost, oh and adding polishing raises the cost more as well that is why many of us do not offer TB's that are polished I only know of a few companies that have a polished throttle body and 2 of them only polish the outside the other I believe is the fast man (I might be mistaken on that so don't quote me about the fastman)

Thanks
Jeremiah

I know it isn't cheap to have skilled people do your products correctly... I appreciate the service vendors provide us consumers with... Without Bully's, Moes, or others we'd be stuck with the machines they(stealerships) offer us... Thank you and I hope Bully's continue to offer us quality products... I could really use an upgrade valve body for my '13, but I heard they are 300-600 from manufacture, then there's the work needed to be done. I hope it's in Bully's future to offer this product. such an easy upgrade.
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