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Old 10-02-2013, 04:35 AM
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Default Thinking of getting a CTD

So I'm a hemi lover through and through. I think I have gas in my veins and I love the sound of a gas V8 winding up.....that said I'm feeling like my next truck will be a 3/4 ton. With Chrysler really drawing a line in the sand of trucks that are mom-mobiles and trucks that work I'm kind of in a weird spot because it's my daily driver, BUT it pulls cows and a flat bed and hauls wood etc....nothing that would requires a CTD though. I'm kind of hoping the 6.4 hemi will solve my problem but I'm not feeling optimistic.

It was a no-brainer till yesterday when I finally drove a Power Wagon and was underwhelmed with the performance. The rear end is low but I guess the frame is too heavy and it just doesn't roll like I think it should. My 08 although being significantly lighter has higher gears so I figured I'd get about the same "seat-of-the-pants" feeling. Boy was I WRONG!

I drove a CTD about 3 weeks ago and wasn't exactly thrilled either, but liked it better than the PW. I felt like there was a ton of turbo lag and that pulling out onto the street that the 800 ft lbs must be on out to lunch until I was already running a good clip. Imagine my surprise to see that I had a 3.42 rear end and there are no options. This is problematic to me because the truck will get 35s ASAP and I know it's just going to feel more sluggish after that. So I'm thinking about maybe a manual if I go the CTD route? Was it all a break-in issue? Are the motors that bogged down with emissions crap? To say I'm scared to death to delete is an understatement, CAI and an exhaust are easy bolt-ons I'd do. I'll also add that a $7700-$8200 option makes me wanna puke. Did you guys get extra good deals because there are Cummins always on the lot?

We all know that mileage isn't the first priority but if it isn't going to be high teens unloaded Im going to have problems justifying it. All that said, I hate to admit it but if Chrysler is going to keep the current ring gear line up they need to re-gear their 6 speeds to have a few lower ratios like.....<gasp> Ford.

Thanks in advance!

Luke
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Last edited by Lil Black 4x4 Hemi; 10-02-2013 at 05:01 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-02-2013, 01:21 PM
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My personal opinion is that if you have the need or want to step up to an HD truck, get a Cummins. Don't even mess around with a gas engine. The Cummins will pull 10 times better when you need it to and is simply way cooler.

I agree that it's BS that you can only get 3.42 gears in the new Cummins. I'm not sure why Ram has made that the only option. I have 3.73's in my '12 Cummins and they work great right now with the stock wheels and tires, I can see them being okay with 35's. But when I jump up to 37's or 38's 4.10's would be nicer to have.
There is quite a long break in time with a Cummins engine; my manual says 10,000km (6000 miles). So that definitely would be a small issue. As far as the turbo lag goes, that's pretty typical with any turbo'd engine.... you can't expect to get boost right off the line without spooling it up. The emissions equipment definitely does bog down the engine and lower the fuel mileage.... that's why so many guys delete. But from what I've heard the '13's with the DEF system are getting a lot better mileage than the previous Cummins with the DPF filter. I'm currently getting around 15.5 mpg in my '12 Cummins that's not even broken in and not deleted yet. Once deleted I expect to be up around 22 mpg. My Uncle who has a stock '13 Cummins is getting about 21 mpg already and that's mainly city driving.
As far as your statement about CAI and exhaust being easy bolt ons, that's not entirely true in a Cummins; especially a '13+ Cummins. We'll start with the exhaust... that is in no way an easy bolt on at all. If you want to change the exhaust, you're deleting. So now you need a delete pipe or full turbo back exhaust and a tuner. At the moment none of that is available for a '13+ Cummins. A '13+ Cummins also has the active air intake so that's not something you really want to change either. You aren't going to notice any gains out of it anyway.... A drop in filter would be your best bet there. Putting in a drop in and removing the air intake baffle will help the turbo spool up a little bit faster as well.

If you think about the cost of the Cummins in the long run, paying the $8000 is not a bad deal at all. A Cummins will last 4 times as long as a hemi. You'll be wearing out the truck long before you wear out the engine. So you have to take that into consideration as well.
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  #3  
Old 10-03-2013, 08:09 PM
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Man, I forgot about the new active air system. I'll be interested to see how that works out long term. I don't guess I realized you can't touch the exhaust without a delete.

I was playing on KBB and it seems that at 150K a Cummins is actually worth the full 8K again but until then it seems to be about 3-5K.

I'm not a chronic truck flipper, but I like to know where my money is at. Normally I drive one for a long long time. I've lucked out over the last year and a half and haven't put on as many miles, but that seems to be partially over and I'm back to using my truck as my DD 4 days a week.

Thanks again!

Luke
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  #4  
Old 10-03-2013, 10:21 PM
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Luke, do you guys have emissions testing Arkansas? Have you considered a low mileage 2003 CTD 5.9? We don't have emissions testing in KY. R...

Last edited by richmond; 10-03-2013 at 10:22 PM. Reason: spell
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by richmond View Post
Luke, do you guys have emissions testing Arkansas? Have you considered a low mileage 2003 CTD 5.9? We don't have emissions testing in KY. R...
We don't have emissions standards or vehicle inspections anymore in AR. Around here every diesel that's not a complete pavement queen is abused...bad. I think it has to do with the oil and gas industry and hired hands on farms just not caring.....In fact my 1960 2010 JD is proof of that.

I should say the deletes horrify me because I've been around diesels, mostly out of warranty, tractors my whole life, but not trucks. I can get around and troubleshoot etc a gas burner, for a diesel this advanced I'm going to have to rely on everyone else....and when you read the repair costs....it makes you hesitant to own one, much less void the warranty!
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  #6  
Old 10-04-2013, 02:40 PM
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Its rough to justify diesel these days unless your going to work it hard. I only owned gas trucks and bought my older Cummins about 2 years ago. I love the truck, my wife hates it. She doesn't like the sound or the smell.

I personally wouldn't do the deletes on a newer truck unless it was out of warranty and even then, I probably wouldn't unless things started going bad, such as EGR and DPF.

My truck is an 04 with a 5.9 and no emission equipment. It has 4.10 gears and it feels pretty quick to me. I have an Edge chip on mine and it wakes it up a lot. With the chip set to level 2 (level 4 is the hottest) it is much quicker off the line with less boost lag. Of course turning a truck up to much starts breaking stuff. As far as the gears go, the six speeds have much lower gears and more of them so 3.43 rear gears isn't that bad unless you tow heavy.

As far as fuel mileage? You here a lot of stories of this great fuel mileage from a Cummins. I think most of them are stories. A first gen truck would probably haul down a honest 25 mpg but it was also rated at something like 165 horsepower. In my experience, I average around 15 mpg, maybe a little better. I don't do a lot of pure highway driving but I don't think I would ever get much better than 18 mpg on the highway. My experience with my past gas trucks is I get slightly better mileage on the highway with my Cummins and about 3 mpg around town. Towing a 10,000 load, you can expect to get at least 3mpg better with a Cummins and maybe as much as 5 mpg better.

Maintance cost is a toss up in my opinion. Other than change the fluids, I haven't had to touch the engine or transmission in my truck yet. I redid the brakes, and had some front end work done. I also had some rust repair done. I'd say I have put close to 5k in my truck since I got it. A lot of the work I did my self but most of the cost (3k) was in the body work. Non of the work I had done HAD to be done, but it needed to be done in my opinion. Most of the stuff had nothing to do with the truck being a diesel but more the fact it's a 3/4 ton. Stuff just costs more, such as the brakes. Resale value is also very high for Cummins trucks in my area.

To be honest most of the vehicles I've bought over the years I got because I want them, not because I need them. I use mine as a truck, but a 1/2 ton would work for me, I've just always wanted a Cummins and am happy I got one when I did.
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  #7  
Old 10-04-2013, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Black 4x4 Hemi View Post
So I'm a hemi lover through and through. I think I have gas in my veins and I love the sound of a gas V8 winding up.....that said I'm feeling like my next truck will be a 3/4 ton. With Chrysler really drawing a line in the sand of trucks that are mom-mobiles and trucks that work I'm kind of in a weird spot because it's my daily driver, BUT it pulls cows and a flat bed and hauls wood etc....nothing that would requires a CTD though. I'm kind of hoping the 6.4 hemi will solve my problem but I'm not feeling optimistic.

It was a no-brainer till yesterday when I finally drove a Power Wagon and was underwhelmed with the performance. The rear end is low but I guess the frame is too heavy and it just doesn't roll like I think it should. My 08 although being significantly lighter has higher gears so I figured I'd get about the same "seat-of-the-pants" feeling. Boy was I WRONG!

I drove a CTD about 3 weeks ago and wasn't exactly thrilled either, but liked it better than the PW. I felt like there was a ton of turbo lag and that pulling out onto the street that the 800 ft lbs must be on out to lunch until I was already running a good clip. Imagine my surprise to see that I had a 3.42 rear end and there are no options. This is problematic to me because the truck will get 35s ASAP and I know it's just going to feel more sluggish after that. So I'm thinking about maybe a manual if I go the CTD route? Was it all a break-in issue? Are the motors that bogged down with emissions crap? To say I'm scared to death to delete is an understatement, CAI and an exhaust are easy bolt-ons I'd do. I'll also add that a $7700-$8200 option makes me wanna puke. Did you guys get extra good deals because there are Cummins always on the lot?

We all know that mileage isn't the first priority but if it isn't going to be high teens unloaded Im going to have problems justifying it. All that said, I hate to admit it but if Chrysler is going to keep the current ring gear line up they need to re-gear their 6 speeds to have a few lower ratios like.....<gasp> Ford.

Thanks in advance!

Luke
Ok m two cents do it and don't look back the power is incredible, the longevity is great it all depends on what you want if you look at a 2010 I believe that was the last year of the truck without the additive having to be added. witch means it would be an easier delete process. and for the record I did my delete last night and all I have to say is I wish I would of done it as soon as I brought the truck home. As for the maintenance everyone complains about everything has a maintenance cost to it the only cost I have had with my truck has been regular scheduled maintenance oil change, differentials, trans fluid, shocks, you get the picture. I don't deal with all the other issues that gas engines have I am by no means knocking them but every time someone mentions a diesel truck some one goes around talking how they are more expensive to maintain. Ohhh we use more oil then a gas engine big deal we will be driving our truck longer also....
Sorry I had to get it off my chest I'm done
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:23 AM
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Lil Black 4x4 Hemi Lil Black 4x4 Hemi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iqudayo View Post
Ok m two cents do it and don't look back the power is incredible, the longevity is great it all depends on what you want if you look at a 2010 I believe that was the last year of the truck without the additive having to be added. witch means it would be an easier delete process. and for the record I did my delete last night and all I have to say is I wish I would of done it as soon as I brought the truck home. As for the maintenance everyone complains about everything has a maintenance cost to it the only cost I have had with my truck has been regular scheduled maintenance oil change, differentials, trans fluid, shocks, you get the picture. I don't deal with all the other issues that gas engines have I am by no means knocking them but every time someone mentions a diesel truck some one goes around talking how they are more expensive to maintain. Ohhh we use more oil then a gas engine big deal we will be driving our truck longer also....
Sorry I had to get it off my chest I'm done
Lol it's cool man!

Maintenance costs don't scare me like "fixing it" cost. $500-$1000 for an injector, melted pistons, blown head gaskets. You can get those problems with anything but they seem more prevalent with diesels these days. Maybe it's from running hot tuners, or tons of work I just know I a few guys with a 6.uh-oh that have spent close to 10k to get their trucks straight.
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Old 10-05-2013, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Black 4x4 Hemi View Post
Lol it's cool man!

Maintenance costs don't scare me like "fixing it" cost. $500-$1000 for an injector, melted pistons, blown head gaskets. You can get those problems with anything but they seem more prevalent with diesels these days. Maybe it's from running hot tuners, or tons of work I just know I a few guys with a 6.uh-oh that have spent close to 10k to get their trucks straight.
Problems like that are all preventable. People who have those problems doing know what they're doing when they're modding stuff. You can't shove a tuner running a high performance tune and drive it with a heavy foot without doing some other small mods to help the engine. There's an order to do things that lots of guys learn the hard way. If you read up on forums and other posts you'll learn a lot about how to prevent those problems. But if you keep it relatively stock you won't have those problems anyway.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:46 PM
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There's a guy on this forum that just picked up an 06 2500 stock in a private sale for 14k. I just believe, as do others that you can find the stock 5.9 Cummins 2500 for a very reasonable price (no wick turned up, no whacked out tuning or rolling black smoke). I'm not towing heavy, maybe 12k once or twice a month. If you need the comfort of new with a warranty the 6.7 guys won't steer you wrong, but neither will the 5.9 guys. I believe if your state does not emissions test it's a financial choice that one must balance between "need and want". I'm like dodge man at about 18 mpg no load, 14 mpg towing. I just do regular maintenance and I'm running about 300 rwhp. Best of luck on your decision. R...
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