DODGE RAM FORUM - Ram Forums and Owners Club! - Dodge Truck Forum

Go Back   DODGE RAM FORUM - Ram Forums and Owners Club! - Dodge Truck Forum > Dodge Ram Forum - Mod Zone - Custom Dodge Ram Mods - Dodge Ram Performance > Dodge Ram Wheels And Tires


Notices

Dodge Ram Wheels And Tires General discussion related to wheels and tires.


Latest Vendor News
AutoAnything
Addictive Desert Designs!
Bayou Goat Mounts

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-03-2014, 10:00 AM
Gossamer Gossamer is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Newcomer
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: iowa
Posts: 24
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2012 ram
Trim Level: laramie
Color: green
Engine: 2009-20?? 345ci (5.7L) Hemi V8 390hp 407lb/ft
Rep Power: 0
Rep:12
Gossamer is on a distinguished road
Default Wheel Adapters

Ok, I've searched and read over and over but all I get are unscientific "I've heard this" type of answers behind wheel adapters.

So, let's have a discussion on why people think that a wheel adapter (and by adapter I mean those that bolt on to the existing hub and are hub centric and have bolts for the wheel to bolt on to) is any different from a negative offset wheel.

I can't, for the life of me, distinguish how putting the stock wheels out further is any different from a different wheel with negative offset sticking out further from the hub. Someone help me understand how that effectively puts any different strain on ANY of the parts.

I ask because I would like to use the stock wheels (for cost purposes) and get a better/wider tire along with some fender flares. To achieve the look I'm seeking, I'm going to have to widen my footprint.

So, who wants to start?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #2  
Old 01-03-2014, 10:14 AM
h2oman's Avatar
h2oman h2oman is online now
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sunny SoCal
Age: 50
Posts: 1,870
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2012 Dodge Ram 1500
Trim Level: Express 4X4
Color: Silver
Engine: 2009-2012 345ci (5.7L) Hemi V8 390hp 407lb/ft
Rep Power: 3
Rep:274
h2oman is a jewel in the roughh2oman is a jewel in the roughh2oman is a jewel in the rough
Default

Lot's of people do it. Why not just do it?
__________________

333
Half the beast
I used to be
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-03-2014, 10:30 AM
Gossamer Gossamer is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Newcomer
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: iowa
Posts: 24
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2012 ram
Trim Level: laramie
Color: green
Engine: 2009-20?? 345ci (5.7L) Hemi V8 390hp 407lb/ft
Rep Power: 0
Rep:12
Gossamer is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by h2oman View Post
Lot's of people do it. Why not just do it?
Well, you see, I'm asking for thoughts on the subject so I can make an informed decision. And, in the off chance someone here has some credible or otherwise valid information that helps me make said decision, I just may do it. But, like most things, people seek advice prior to "just doing it". Kind of why the forum exists?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-03-2014, 11:40 AM
h2oman's Avatar
h2oman h2oman is online now
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sunny SoCal
Age: 50
Posts: 1,870
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2012 Dodge Ram 1500
Trim Level: Express 4X4
Color: Silver
Engine: 2009-2012 345ci (5.7L) Hemi V8 390hp 407lb/ft
Rep Power: 3
Rep:274
h2oman is a jewel in the roughh2oman is a jewel in the roughh2oman is a jewel in the rough
Default

I know a lot of guys have told horror stories about spacers. But you are talking adapters and if adapters caused accidents then the manufacturer would be liable and would stop making them.
__________________

333
Half the beast
I used to be
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-03-2014, 12:38 PM
brandonjansen's Avatar
brandonjansen brandonjansen is online now
Lifted Cummins Fanatic


 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada
Age: 22
Posts: 5,440
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2012 Dodge Ram 3500 CCSB 4x4
Trim Level: Laramie Limited
Color: Mineral Grey Metallic
Engine: 2011-20?? 409ci (6.7L) Cummins Turbo Diesel 350hp 800lb/ft
Rep Power: 7
Rep:1946
brandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant future
Default

I personally would never run large wheel spacers or adapters. You're just asking for trouble. Check out this video http://instagram.com/p/iUIYZkjrXs/. If that's not enough proof, you're in denial...

It's harder on parts because you're putting even more of the weight further out from the hub which also gives the wheel/tire more leverage and therefore puts more stress on all the front end parts. Plus the spacers/adapters have a chance of failing which will make your wheel/tire fall right off. Again, just look at the video....
__________________

2012 Ram 3500 Laramie Limited Cummins Build Thread
8" BDS Long Arm Lift with Fox 2.0 Shocks | Dual Fox 2.0 Steering Stabilizer | 37x13.5 Toyo MT's | AMP Powersteps & Bedstep | Bakflip G2
EST 500 hp/1268 ft-lbs at FW | H&S MiniMaxx Custom Tuned | 4" Flo Pro Stainless TBE | Sinister EGR Delete | ARP 425 Head Studs | S&B Intake w/ Scoop
Guide to Leveling & Wheel and Tire Sizing for 06+ 4wd Ram 1500's
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-03-2014, 01:00 PM
mygt8a4re's Avatar
mygt8a4re mygt8a4re is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member!
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Bradenton, Fl.
Age: 41
Posts: 141
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2013 Ram 1500
Trim Level: Sport
Color: white
Engine: 2009-20?? 345ci (5.7L) Hemi V8 390hp 407lb/ft
Rep Power: 0
Rep:10
mygt8a4re is on a distinguished road
Default

If you purchase good quality adapters with good quality materials/bolts and have it torqued down properly with quality nuts you should be fine. I ran a few sets of adapters in the past on a few different vehicles problem free. I do agree that the spacers, taking away from the threads, is dangerous. Those that have failure with adapters are cutting corners and purchase cheap pieces with inferior materials. To answer your question, the difference in using adapters as opposed to running a negative offset rim is that there are two mounting locations instead of one and twice the amount of nuts and bolts in place, thus allowing for a better chance of failure.
__________________
MYGT8A4RE = My GT Ate A Ferrari, been using that screen name for years....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-03-2014, 02:45 PM
Gossamer Gossamer is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Newcomer
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: iowa
Posts: 24
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2012 ram
Trim Level: laramie
Color: green
Engine: 2009-20?? 345ci (5.7L) Hemi V8 390hp 407lb/ft
Rep Power: 0
Rep:12
Gossamer is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonjansen View Post
I personally would never run large wheel spacers or adapters. You're just asking for trouble. Check out this video http://instagram.com/p/iUIYZkjrXs/. If that's not enough proof, you're in denial...

It's harder on parts because you're putting even more of the weight further out from the hub which also gives the wheel/tire more leverage and therefore puts more stress on all the front end parts. Plus the spacers/adapters have a chance of failing which will make your wheel/tire fall right off. Again, just look at the video....
Two things...

1-that truck appears to have other more significant mods to it than simply a wheel adapter...in doing so, it really makes it difficult to narrow it down to the adapter being the only issue...not a controlled test

2-help me understand, in your opinion, how a wheel adapter moving the wheel out further from the hub is different from no adapter and simply a different wheel? How is the "stress" different? The weight you speak of is further out, regardless of how it got there.

I'll give you the failure argument because that's legit...it's an additional piece that could fail. But I still don't see the difference in the weight distribution and stress between an adapter and a different wheel?

I appreciate your response but am looking for something more than a guy wobbling a wheel on a truck that nobody has any knowledge of.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-03-2014, 03:10 PM
brandonjansen's Avatar
brandonjansen brandonjansen is online now
Lifted Cummins Fanatic


 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada
Age: 22
Posts: 5,440
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2012 Dodge Ram 3500 CCSB 4x4
Trim Level: Laramie Limited
Color: Mineral Grey Metallic
Engine: 2011-20?? 409ci (6.7L) Cummins Turbo Diesel 350hp 800lb/ft
Rep Power: 7
Rep:1946
brandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gossamer View Post
Two things...

1-that truck appears to have other more significant mods to it than simply a wheel adapter...in doing so, it really makes it difficult to narrow it down to the adapter being the only issue...not a controlled test

2-help me understand, in your opinion, how a wheel adapter moving the wheel out further from the hub is different from no adapter and simply a different wheel? How is the "stress" different? The weight you speak of is further out, regardless of how it got there.

I'll give you the failure argument because that's legit...it's an additional piece that could fail. But I still don't see the difference in the weight distribution and stress between an adapter and a different wheel?

I appreciate your response but am looking for something more than a guy wobbling a wheel on a truck that nobody has any knowledge of.
Yes it does have other significant mods.... but what do they have to do with the wheels/tires/spacers and hubs? None of the other mods effect those things. Granted he is running much larger wheels and tires than the average guy... but still.

It's much different. If you have the proper wheel width/offset the center section of the wheel is bolted directly to the hub. The center section weighs a fair amount and in that case is right up against the hub meaning there is less torque caused by that weight on the hub/bearings etc. If you use a wheel spacer to get the stance you want you are moving that entire center section that much further away from the hub and therefore more weight away from the hub providing more torque on the hub/bearings etc. Now that being said it's not necessarily that straight forward for all wheels. It depends on exactly what size we're talking about, offset, and wheel design.

What it really boils down to is that by putting a spacer or adapter on you're putting in another unnecessary connection. Parts are bound to fail at connections and that's often what happens with wheel spacers/adapters. The constant torquing on them (especially running large, heavy mud tires) will cause them stretch, wear out, and break. Just like what's shown in that video....
__________________

2012 Ram 3500 Laramie Limited Cummins Build Thread
8" BDS Long Arm Lift with Fox 2.0 Shocks | Dual Fox 2.0 Steering Stabilizer | 37x13.5 Toyo MT's | AMP Powersteps & Bedstep | Bakflip G2
EST 500 hp/1268 ft-lbs at FW | H&S MiniMaxx Custom Tuned | 4" Flo Pro Stainless TBE | Sinister EGR Delete | ARP 425 Head Studs | S&B Intake w/ Scoop
Guide to Leveling & Wheel and Tire Sizing for 06+ 4wd Ram 1500's
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-03-2014, 03:33 PM
Gossamer Gossamer is offline
Dodge Ram Forum Newcomer
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: iowa
Posts: 24
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2012 ram
Trim Level: laramie
Color: green
Engine: 2009-20?? 345ci (5.7L) Hemi V8 390hp 407lb/ft
Rep Power: 0
Rep:12
Gossamer is on a distinguished road
Default

I'd argue they have a lot to do with failure. Logic is that unless you can run a control group that specifically addresses the point of emphasis, you can't readily determine whether or not there were other contributing factors. From the looks of this particular truck in the other photos, it's HEAVILY modified and very little, if any, of the original geometry remains. Do you not feel that may have contributed to the failure in the video?

What I'm talking about running are the stock wheels and minimally larger tires...not having 800ft lbs of torque with mudders on every corner and whatever else was done to that monster truck.

I do get the premise that another "joint" or additional parts can impact fatigue. I wonder though, if what I'm contemplating falls into what I feel is an extreme category like the one you've proposed.

I do see some logic in your second paragraph, however, and have thought the same thing...even discussed it with another friend. I think you may be onto something there. I just am looking for more information to help me decide how "risky" this is.

What's weird is many racing folks use spacers of varying sizes on their cars and have little to no issues. Wonder if the stress trucks put on that area is so much greater than that of a sports car.

Clearly I'm no engineer...just a guy with more money than brains apparently.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-03-2014, 04:06 PM
brandonjansen's Avatar
brandonjansen brandonjansen is online now
Lifted Cummins Fanatic


 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada
Age: 22
Posts: 5,440
Gender: Male
Vehicle: 2012 Dodge Ram 3500 CCSB 4x4
Trim Level: Laramie Limited
Color: Mineral Grey Metallic
Engine: 2011-20?? 409ci (6.7L) Cummins Turbo Diesel 350hp 800lb/ft
Rep Power: 7
Rep:1946
brandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant futurebrandonjansen has a brilliant future
Default

I fully agree that the size (and therefore weight) of his wheels and tires does greatly play into it. But please explain to me what other mod would effect it? The geometry between the wheels/tires, hub and axle is all the same as it would be stock. The truck wouldn't move if they weren't.... The lift or anything else in no way effects the wheels/tires or spacers. So no, I don't think any of those other mods contributed to it at all. I think it's the spacers not being able to handle the weight and stress from those wheels/tires.

I understand what you want to achieve with the spacers. That's pretty straight forward. What tires do you plan on running? I don't believe that was mentioned anywhere.

No I don't think what you're proposing is in the extreme category like what I'm explaining or showing in that video.... I'm just trying to get my point across that you are pushing it towards those areas. It's not like there's a fine line where you can say "this is okay and this isn't" with wheel spacers. As soon as you add them you are looking for trouble IMO. That's just how it is. Will you wear them out as quickly or as drastically as the guy in the video? No, probably not. But you probably will start to get the same problems he had eventually.

What you have to remember is the size and weight of the wheels/tires those racing guys are running compared to what we're running on trucks.... That's what starts to effect it. A guy running a 26" tall tire on a 15" rim that weights 50 pounds altogether is a long ways away from running 35's on a 20" rim weight over 100 pounds altogether.
__________________

2012 Ram 3500 Laramie Limited Cummins Build Thread
8" BDS Long Arm Lift with Fox 2.0 Shocks | Dual Fox 2.0 Steering Stabilizer | 37x13.5 Toyo MT's | AMP Powersteps & Bedstep | Bakflip G2
EST 500 hp/1268 ft-lbs at FW | H&S MiniMaxx Custom Tuned | 4" Flo Pro Stainless TBE | Sinister EGR Delete | ARP 425 Head Studs | S&B Intake w/ Scoop
Guide to Leveling & Wheel and Tire Sizing for 06+ 4wd Ram 1500's
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Advertisement






All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:13 PM.


= Copyright RamForumZ.com a Gigathreads.com Network Site =Ad Management by RedTyger
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vB.Sponsors


=Gigathreads Network=
CLUBS MOPAR NATION DSM GPMM MAMM JAM
DIESEL Diesel Forum      
CHEVY Chevy Camaro Forum Chevy Volt Forum    
CHRYSLER Chrysler 300C Forum      
DODGE Dodge Avenger Forum Dodge Caliber Forum Dodge Challenger Forum Dodge Charger Forum
  Dodge Circuit Forum Dodge Hornet Forum Dodge Magnum Forum Dodge Nitro Forum
  Dodge Ram Forum Dodge Dakota Forum Dodge Durango Forum Dodge Dart Forum
FORD Ford Raptor Forum Ford F150 Forum Ford F100 Forum  
JEEP Jeep Forum      
PONTIAC Pontiac G8 Forum      
SRT SRT Viper Forum SRT Cuda Forum