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  #1  
Old 01-29-2014, 07:48 PM
sackings19 sackings19 is offline
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Default Ecodiesel- reasons to wait

I have had my mind set on getting a Ram 1500 crew cab for two years, and I have been waiting on the Ecodiesel for the last year. Based on all the reviews, and my test drive of a Grand Cherokee with the engine, I think it will be a very good option for light duty trucks.

With that said, I'm now second guessing my choice to wait for the Ecodiesel. Here are some of my concerns:

1. If you do mainly city driving new diesels with the DPF's are not ideal. If you don't get the engine hot enough for long enough the filters can become clogged until you go drive for 20 minutes.

2. The tow rating for the Ecodiesel and the Pentastar with 3.55 gears are almost identical. I know towing with the diesel will be much easier, but it makes me thing it would be worth waiting for an ED with 3.92's to get the most capability.

3. The inability to get a lifetime warranty on the Ecodiesel, and the unknown long term reliability of this engine combined with all of the expensive emissions related parts.

4. Special oil for the Ecodiesel. I owed a 2010 VW Jetta diesel and at that time the special spec oil was $8 a quart at Pepboys (the only local store that had the oil). The same oil, which is needed for the Ecodiesel, is now $12 at Pepboys. Although I have found it online at Amazon for about $7 a quart, the fact that it costs so much and is hard to find is annoying. The ED takes 8 quarts, so at $12 a quart that is about $100 just for oil. It just seems the stores stick it to you whenever the word diesel is involved. The oil filters are again, much more expensive. With the DEF fluid included you will could be looking at $150 for an oil change.

5. The added weight further reduces an already weak payload rating for crew cab pickups with the Rambox option. One of the things that sold me on the Ram was the Ramboxes. If I can't get an ED with Ramboxes and have a decent payload rating I will have to pass.

6. In addition to the $4,500 cost over the gas V6, will the ED not qualify for all rebates, further increasing the actual cost for the upgrade. No one at Ram knows or will say.

I wanted to bring up some of these issues with the ED so everyone can make an informed decision. Sometimes when something new comes out we all get caught up in the excitement and overlook things. I don't want to upset anyone, just further the discussion. I am addicted to this forum and really appreciate the information I have gathered so far from other users.
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  #2  
Old 01-29-2014, 10:34 PM
maw262 maw262 is offline
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I have waited over a year for the diesel. The more I researched modern diesels the more I became concerned that my driving needs would be poorly suited for the emissions equipment.

Long story short, I just purchased a Longhorn with the Hemi today. I ordered the truck, so it will be a couple months before I take delivery.
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  #3  
Old 01-30-2014, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sackings19 View Post
I have had my mind set on getting a Ram 1500 crew cab for two years, and I have been waiting on the Ecodiesel for the last year. Based on all the reviews, and my test drive of a Grand Cherokee with the engine, I think it will be a very good option for light duty trucks.

With that said, I'm now second guessing my choice to wait for the Ecodiesel. Here are some of my concerns:

1. If you do mainly city driving new diesels with the DPF's are not ideal. If you don't get the engine hot enough for long enough the filters can become clogged until you go drive for 20 minutes.

2. The tow rating for the Ecodiesel and the Pentastar with 3.55 gears are almost identical. I know towing with the diesel will be much easier, but it makes me thing it would be worth waiting for an ED with 3.92's to get the most capability.

3. The inability to get a lifetime warranty on the Ecodiesel, and the unknown long term reliability of this engine combined with all of the expensive emissions related parts.

4. Special oil for the Ecodiesel. I owed a 2010 VW Jetta diesel and at that time the special spec oil was $8 a quart at Pepboys (the only local store that had the oil). The same oil, which is needed for the Ecodiesel, is now $12 at Pepboys. Although I have found it online at Amazon for about $7 a quart, the fact that it costs so much and is hard to find is annoying. The ED takes 8 quarts, so at $12 a quart that is about $100 just for oil. It just seems the stores stick it to you whenever the word diesel is involved. The oil filters are again, much more expensive. With the DEF fluid included you will could be looking at $150 for an oil change.

5. The added weight further reduces an already weak payload rating for crew cab pickups with the Rambox option. One of the things that sold me on the Ram was the Ramboxes. If I can't get an ED with Ramboxes and have a decent payload rating I will have to pass.

6. In addition to the $4,500 cost over the gas V6, will the ED not qualify for all rebates, further increasing the actual cost for the upgrade. No one at Ram knows or will say.

I wanted to bring up some of these issues with the ED so everyone can make an informed decision. Sometimes when something new comes out we all get caught up in the excitement and overlook things. I don't want to upset anyone, just further the discussion. I am addicted to this forum and really appreciate the information I have gathered so far from other users.
1. i think the tow ratings are on par with the hemi, not with the V6, check again.
2. I heard that so many times, but no actual facts, real documentation. It seems to work on with the rest of the world; i'm not buying that.
3. This is not a new engine, it has been in production for 3 years or so now, it is just new in the trucks. A well put together engine as far as I read.
4. Higher oil price, however, much longer usage out of it (I think ~15000miles or so) so the price will probably be even.
5. Payload is one of the downsides. Get the V6 or move to a bigger diesel. You cant have your cake and eat it too, at least not now.
6. It is a very new product, super hot in the market with high demand. Of course there are no rebates, come on. I am sure by Christmas time it will be in line with the other models. Do not forget the higher resale value and the longer engine life.
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  #4  
Old 01-30-2014, 04:29 AM
RisingEagle RisingEagle is offline
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only thing I would point out - payload is what you can put in your truck (I know, I know, thank you captain obvious...).

with a 1500 model, AND rambox, you aren't putting a great deal in the bed of the truck - there just isn't a whole lot of space. The 1500 CC LoneStar w/hemi has a max payload of 1600lbs, the ecodiesel is 1377lbs - the weight of a heavy passenger (like me!).

I guess if you went to a regular cab / 8ft bed you could theoretically put more in the truck, but I just haven't seen that many configurations out there like that. Most that get the rambox like them as 'convenience space'

If you want decent payload - get a 2500. a 1500 Big Horn with diesel is ~35k, a 2500 Big Horn with 6.4 (NONdiesel) is ~37k, and with a CTD it's ~43k. (quick numbers pulled from fast scan of dennis dillon)

I guess the bottom line is - I wouldn't necessarily use a ~200lb difference in payload capacity as a factor in selecting between a hemi or a ED - there are much better payload discriminators out there - like choosing between a 1500 model and a 2500.

for the other points - #1 is definitely a valid concern, #6 - well, I would never put a v6 gas engine in any of my trucks. unless you are going to use it as a car instead of a truck, it just isn't enough power to do much.

the good thing is - there are a lot of choices out there to get the right truck for you. more payload? go to a larger model. If diesel is your thing, the CTD is a tried and true engine. even if it means stepping down a trim model to keep in budget, the options are there to get exactly what you want (unless it's a CTD in a 1500... )
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  #5  
Old 01-30-2014, 09:50 AM
Fireboy Fireboy is offline
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Hard to get the true facts and numbers. The lone star ED will not have a 1377 lb payload. Yes it says that online but the real number will be on the door sticker and it is a lot lower. Look for the thread on the fully loaded Laramie CC with 808lbs of payload on the door sticker. The oil changes will be more because my gaser cam go 15000km between changes on the full synthetic. Also I have the pentastar V6 and with the 8 speed tranny it pulls awesome. Always feels like the power is right there at my foot. I did a lot of research and in the end the deisel would cost more to buy and maintain and fuel up. That's ok if I needed it. But it was more a want because it is cool. I am not sold on the engine just yet. Ya people will claim it has been in production for a few years. Correct but in a country with low emission standards that allow the engine to stretch its legs. Here it have been suffocated with emissions crap which makes it run different and therefore does make it basically I new package with little testing. Just look at the eco cherokee forum. Lots of issues in the cold weather. In the end most of us will buy something we want, not that we need. That makes life fun and working more bearable. These truck are very expensive and the last thing you want is sitting in your new truck wishing you bought a different one. Go with your gut and make yourself happy. I traded in a 11 month old truck for my ram. My wife did not see the point. She now does sees the point as I head out for my 1 hour drive to work with a huge smile on my face.
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  #6  
Old 01-30-2014, 10:36 AM
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Geodasher Geodasher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sackings19 View Post
...I wanted to bring up some of these issues with the ED so everyone can make an informed decision. Sometimes when something new comes out we all get caught up in the excitement and overlook things. I don't want to upset anyone, just further the discussion. I am addicted to this forum and really appreciate the information I have gathered so far from other users.
All of the points have been discussed here. Good to cover them as well as possible and then move on to the factors important to you. Avoid speculation, fear and faulty reasoning.

The engine application is new which has some inherent risk, and if that makes you uncomfortable then look elsewhere. The only factor I see of major concern is the payload. You can have a crew cab and luxuries with a low payload, or you can increase the payload by reducing luxuries and cab size--this is just a half-ton pickup after all.

Rather than dwell on potential negatives, I prefer to look at the whole package. The diesel 1500 is a unique collection of great features in a half-ton truck. Not for everyone, of course, but it certainly suits my needs.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:49 AM
huntergreen huntergreen is offline
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i am not a fan of this motor for the ram. would love to have it in a wrangler or grand cherokee but not a ram as i do not believe it is a good work diesel. as for longevity, a quick read on a jeep form with old 2.8 diesel in the liberty model might give you an indication about longevity and problems.
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Old 01-30-2014, 12:49 PM
1962savoy 1962savoy is offline
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I looked at the ED and for the 5 grand extra and little benifit in milage ,I opted for the Hemi. you go along ways on 5 grands worth of gas and extra oil change charges.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireboy View Post
Hard to get the true facts and numbers. The lone star ED will not have a 1377 lb payload. Yes it says that online but the real number will be on the door sticker and it is a lot lower. Look for the thread on the fully loaded Laramie CC with 808lbs of payload on the door sticker. The oil changes will be more because my gaser cam go 15000km between changes on the full synthetic. Also I have the pentastar V6 and with the 8 speed tranny it pulls awesome. Always feels like the power is right there at my foot. I did a lot of research and in the end the deisel would cost more to buy and maintain and fuel up. That's ok if I needed it. But it was more a want because it is cool. I am not sold on the engine just yet. Ya people will claim it has been in production for a few years. Correct but in a country with low emission standards that allow the engine to stretch its legs. Here it have been suffocated with emissions crap which makes it run different and therefore does make it basically I new package with little testing. Just look at the eco cherokee forum. Lots of issues in the cold weather. In the end most of us will buy something we want, not that we need. That makes life fun and working more bearable. These truck are very expensive and the last thing you want is sitting in your new truck wishing you bought a different one. Go with your gut and make yourself happy. I traded in a 11 month old truck for my ram. My wife did not see the point. She now does sees the point as I head out for my 1 hour drive to work with a huge smile on my face.
What cold weather issues? Looking at jeepgarage, many aren't remote starting at -18 but they manually start just fine (remote start doesn't want to crank the engine longer than a crank or two).
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  #10  
Old 01-30-2014, 03:56 PM
nailem nailem is offline
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I thought the same thing. I read the jeep forums and haven't really read anything about cold weather problems.
5k more, you must be From Canada only $2800 more here in the US.
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