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  #1  
Old 01-30-2014, 10:23 AM
TaCtIkZ TaCtIkZ is offline
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Default 8HP70 shifting issue. Am I the only one?

I have a new 2014 Ram sport with the 8HP70 8-speed in it.
I just broke 2000kms on the odometer, and after starting it and warming it up to go to work, The truck wouldn't get out of park. The display stated that it needed to go to "P" and then the desired gear", over and over. I tried shifting from P to R to N to D, playing with the 4x4 mode, even attempted to toss it into neutral, nothing worked. I had to manually release the drivetrain, and get it towed to the dealer.
To make a long story short, I am now driving a rental car. Apparently Chrysler Canada engineering wants the dealership to replace a "transmission Valve Body" which I've researched to be not such a small job.
Has anyone else had similar issues? Is it possible that this could be caused by something else? firmware/software? I was told that my truck was now recognizing that it was in park and working fine and I could take it while they waited on the parts, but they could not guarantee if/when it would happen again.
I'm not sure I would like my truck "Cracked open" unless absolutely necessary, and I really don't want it to be a guinea pig for Chrysler Canada taking shots in the dark at it.

I love my Ram, but my confidence in the vehicle has just flown out the window.

Help?
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:55 AM
huntergreen huntergreen is offline
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i have an 11 and no experience with your trans. opinions may vary, but not too many folks post up with too many problems after a trans repair from the dealer. i believe they will fix it correctly and you will be fine. PM trans engineer, he is an expert when it comes to transmissions.
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:42 AM
TaCtIkZ TaCtIkZ is offline
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Here is the link to the video that I took of what is happening.
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:45 AM
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Adanac Ram Adanac Ram is offline
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It could be a few things... dial selector, actuator, electrical, valve body, TCM, etc., etc.

If it is the valve body (which it very well could be), it's no big deal. They drop the trans pan, unbolt the valve body, and swap in a new one. There's no risk with having it done and you end up with a partial fill of new trans fluid.
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Last edited by Adanac Ram; 01-30-2014 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:27 PM
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A different issue, but possibly valve body related...

http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=161660
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:26 AM
deathwarden5 deathwarden5 is offline
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IF it is in fact the valve body (which is also the Transmission control Module), then it is actually a fairly easy and simple job on this transmission.

I've seen few threads now, where Chrysler says to just throw in new valve bodies, and sometimes two or three before "fixing" the problem. I'm starting to question if Chrysler is just too new to this transmission, and don't quite know how to properly diag them.

From my experience (working Jaguar / Land Rover, which have used ZF transmissions for 10 years now, the 8-speed specifically for over two years, and rotary shifters for over 4 years), that problem you are having is not a TCM issue. I have yet to replace a TCM on a 8HP (or even see one replaced), and rarely ever in general in a ZF. I have replaced shifters, but never a TCM. The fault is more likely in either the GSM or just a generic CAN fault.

But, obviously without seeing the truck, I can't say what the actual fault is. The dealer and Chrysler are the ones diagnosing it. If they say it's a valve body, then we'll see.
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:42 AM
TaCtIkZ TaCtIkZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adanac Ram View Post
A different issue, but possibly valve body related...

http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=161660
Thanks for the link to that post. I read it this morning, and it's exactly what I'd like to avoid. I don't want the dealership throwing parts at my new truck and messing something else up. If the Valve body is in fact the problem, then tell me why you believe that to be the case. If you're just gonna throw parts at it "plug and pray", then do it on another truck. I'm not a guinea pig.

From everything I've read these ZF trannies are amazing and extremely reliable.
The service advisor at the dealer just said that Chrysler Canada engineers have told us to change the valve body. If that doesn't fix it we'll look deeper.
The mechanic working on the truck said that he's never seen this on a Ram but did see it on a Jeep, and when I asked if changing this part made the problem go away, his response was that he believes it happened another time after the change, in other words, no, it did not fix the issue.
I do believe like you Deathwarden5 that it's something else, firmware, software, sensor? But I have no idea who I could engage to have them actually look into it and explain their diagnostic process or why they feel that it's the valve body.
When I called Chrysler Canada help line about it, the incident manager said that they have assigned the necessary resources to the case and that if the valve body doesn't fix the problem we'll cross that bridge then.

I don't want to end up a guinea pig... but no one at Chrysler seems to care.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:16 AM
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The "Shift to P, then Desired Gear" message indicates there is a mismatch between the shifter position and the actual transmission gear. It looks like, in your case, the transmission itself is stuck in Park, so when you try to shift to R or D, you get the correct gear indication for a second or so, then the TCM figures out that the trans hasn't been able to disengage Park, so it starts to blink the "R" or "D" indication and gives you the message. Normally, shifting back to P will clear up any mismatch (and you can then shift back to R or D and go), but apparently your trans will not release Park.

Since the 8-speed trans is Park-by-wire (there is no direct mechanical link, other than the Manual Park Release), the Park mechanism is fairly complicated. Park is engaged by a torsion spring, released by hydraulic pressure, and is then held released by both hydraulic pressure and a mechanical solenoid. There is also a sensor to detect actual Park lock engagement.

Was your trans actually stuck in Park (would not roll until you activated the Manual Park Release), or (when in R, N, or D) could it roll?

I would suspect there is a problem with the valve that disengages Park (which would be a valve body problem), or there is no pressure being fed to that valve (which would likely be a VB problem, but could also be a pump issue), or the Park sensor is giving an erroneous reading (indicating Park when trans is actually out of Park). The Park sensor is also part of the VB assy. (If your truck would roll when in R, N, or D, that to me would indicate a bad Park sensor, since the Park mechanism WAS actually disengaging.)

The fault code[s] would give a clearer picture of just what the problem is, but obviously you don't have those yet. So at this point in time (with limited info) I'd say the VB is your best bet.
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Old 01-31-2014, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathwarden5 View Post
IF it is in fact the valve body (which is also the Transmission control Module), then it is actually a fairly easy and simple job on this transmission.
The valve body and the TCM are very different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TransEngineer View Post
The "Shift to P, then Desired Gear" message indicates there is a mismatch between the shifter position and the actual transmission gear. It looks like, in your case, the transmission itself is stuck in Park, so when you try to shift to R or D, you get the correct gear indication for a second or so, then the TCM figures out that the trans hasn't been able to disengage Park, so it starts to blink the "R" or "D" indication and gives you the message. Normally, shifting back to P will clear up any mismatch (and you can then shift back to R or D and go), but apparently your trans will not release Park.

Since the 8-speed trans is Park-by-wire (there is no direct mechanical link, other than the Manual Park Release), the Park mechanism is fairly complicated. Park is engaged by a torsion spring, released by hydraulic pressure, and is then held released by both hydraulic pressure and a mechanical solenoid. There is also a sensor to detect actual Park lock engagement.

Was your trans actually stuck in Park (would not roll until you activated the Manual Park Release), or (when in R, N, or D) could it roll?

I would suspect there is a problem with the valve that disengages Park (which would be a valve body problem), or there is no pressure being fed to that valve (which would likely be a VB problem, but could also be a pump issue), or the Park sensor is giving an erroneous reading (indicating Park when trans is actually out of Park). The Park sensor is also part of the VB assy. (If your truck would roll when in R, N, or D, that to me would indicate a bad Park sensor, since the Park mechanism WAS actually disengaging.)

The fault code[s] would give a clearer picture of just what the problem is, but obviously you don't have those yet. So at this point in time (with limited info) I'd say the VB is your best bet.
Great info.
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:16 PM
TransEngineer TransEngineer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adanac Ram View Post
The valve body and the TCM are very different.
Actually, in the 8-speed trans, the TCM is inside the transmission, and it is mounted on top of the valve body assy. So it's actually part of the VB assy. In fact, the 8-speed valve body is officially called the "Transmission Control Module Assembly" (TCMA).
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