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  #1  
Old 12-01-2009, 07:43 PM
dman dman is offline
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Question 2003 Ram 1500 4.7 running rich and rough

Hey guys, I'm new to the site and have just bought a 2003 Ram quad cab 4.7 V8. It runs really rough and has no power, seems to be running really rich too. I had a code P0172 and when I got my wife to rev it up a bit I saw black smoke come out of the exhaust. I brought it to a mechanic for a safety inspection and asked him to have a quick look at it. He checked the fuel pressure, compression, coil packs, changed plugs, checked everything out generally and looked for codes of which it has none except for the P0172. No noise from the valve covers so I don't think there is anything broken inside there.

He mentioned that it may be that the valve timing may have skipped a tooth. Has anyone else seen this before or is it possible?? I'm thinking of checking it out.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

P.S. I'm very excited about this truck and I've always liked the looks of the ram.
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Old 12-01-2009, 09:29 PM
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Jumping time is possible, although pretty unlikely. The 4.7 is a very tight interference engine, so one tooth off on the cams can result in bent intake valves. A compression test won't always show this because the bend is very minor, but enough to unseat the valves. A differential pressure (leak down) test will yield more definitve answers. It's also possible that there is a large amount of carbon built up on the intake valves causing them to hang open. I'd be inclined to try a thorough intake cleaning with either Mopar combustion cleaner or an aftermarket equilivent.

Here's a list of other possible causes:

O2 SENSOR
O2 SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT OPEN
O2 SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT SHORTED TO VOLTAGE
O2 SENSOR HEATER OPERATION
EVAP SYSTEM OPERATION
TP SENSOR VOLTAGE GREATER THAN 0.92 OF A VOLT WITH THROTTLE CLOSED
TP SENSOR SWEEP
FUEL FILTER/PRESSURE REGULATOR
MAP SENSOR OPERATION
ECT SENSOR OPERATION
ENGINE MECHANICAL PROBLEM
PCM
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:22 PM
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So, I took off the valve covers today and found three rockers sitting in the bottom of the cover. Two on the #2 bank and one on #1 bank.
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:26 PM
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What do the cams look like and are any of the valves stuck down?
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:28 PM
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Since you already have the covers off, you might as well check the cam timing. Rotate the balancer and align the mark on the damper with the mark on the chain cover and then check the marks on the cams. The V8 marks should be at the 12 o'clock position on both cams and the L and R marks should be level.
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dman View Post
So, I took off the valve covers today and found three rockers sitting in the bottom of the cover. Two on the #2 bank and one on #1 bank.
And the compression test came back fine . Are you sure he did it ? I would have to question that one . Should of saw something then in the readings .
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toms Blue Ram 1500 View Post
And the compression test came back fine . Are you sure he did it ? I would have to question that one . Should of saw something then in the readings .
He should have seen the plugs soaked with fuel and said something. I'd avoid this mechanic in the future.
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:28 PM
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They were just exhaust rockers, was getting air from intake so compression would be ok.

Was popping out the intake so it makes sense.

Ran fine with the rockers back on but it looks like one fell back off. How do you keep these on!!!! I've only put 50 miles on it.
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:37 PM
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This is a tough one, but the only reason I can come up with is the valves are sticking for whatever reason, allowing the followers to come out.
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Old 12-04-2009, 05:08 PM
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It was making some noise on startup, like there was no oil pressure and it was a "dry" start. I read that the mopar filters have a check valve in them to keep oil pressure up and prevent "dry" starts. Could I have a cheap oil filter on it that doesn't have a check valve which is allowing the oil to drain back into the pan and the lifters (adjusters) to relax? It doesn't happen when driving, seems to have only happened at startup.

I'll get some combustion chamber cleaner while I'm at it and see if it helps the valve thing out.

Last edited by dman; 12-04-2009 at 05:58 PM.
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