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  #1  
Old 08-24-2014, 01:45 PM
Warlock III Warlock III is offline
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Another member and I were talking about recent events in the middle section of the country and how some protests have now spread to other regions of the country.

Maybe a touchy subject, maybe not, but I'd like some honest opinions form LEO's.

The way I see it is that if it's a legitimate stop and the detainee complies with the officer's instructions, the subject will be on his merry way in no time at all.

If the subject refuses to comply and the officer has to repeat himself repeatedly then most offenders get what they deserve.*

I see this repeatedly as if the officer lives in the Swiss Alps and there's an echo. They repeat the same command 5-10 times. (I personally feel that there should be the opportunity for the officer to use reasonable force after repeating the command. By reasonable force I mean whatever it takes and is available to the officer to neutralize the situation)

I get the feeling that the subject is buying time to formulate some type of resistance, and at the same time the officer is thinking "crap, what is this guy up to?"

* Note: this pertains to all races and the one color. This is another subject in and of itself: I have noticed that on most Government forms "white" is the only "color" option. Otherwise it's "African-American, Native-American, Asian-American, Spanish-American...etc, and then White." Shouldn't that say something like "European-American"?

Last edited by Warlock III; 08-24-2014 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 08-25-2014, 07:08 AM
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I guess I must be missing something here- what is it that you want an opinion on?

I'd start by saying your wording is a little off- 90% of LEO's daily contacts have nothing to do with "detainees" or "offenders".

Yes, there are "certain" situations where an LEO may use a reasonable level of force needed to stop a threat, however the policies and procedures of that officers department will ultimately guide them in what is allowed and what is not.

Just because I ask someone to do something, it doesn't mean they have to comply. It all depends on the situation and the reason for making contact.

My opinion is this: Law Enforcement is a dynamic field.... like the water in the ocean, an officer's tasks continuely turn over and switch throughout the day. Because no person is the same, each situation is unique. No one can give opinions or play the "what if" game because each time the game is played, it would result in a different answer depending on who and what was involved.

Ferguson, MO happened- and it has nothing to do with the actions of the people involved, it has nothing to do with race or religion. This whole debacle rest soley in the hands of Politics and the Media...... they saw a platform on which they could stand and the rest is history as they say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock III View Post
Another member and I were talking about recent events in the middle section of the country and how some protests have now spread to other regions of the country.

Maybe a touchy subject, maybe not, but I'd like some honest opinions form LEO's.

The way I see it is that if it's a legitimate stop and the detainee complies with the officer's instructions, the subject will be on his merry way in no time at all.

If the subject refuses to comply and the officer has to repeat himself repeatedly then most offenders get what they deserve.*

I see this repeatedly as if the officer lives in the Swiss Alps and there's an echo. They repeat the same command 5-10 times. (I personally feel that there should be the opportunity for the officer to use reasonable force after repeating the command. By reasonable force I mean whatever it takes and is available to the officer to neutralize the situation)

I get the feeling that the subject is buying time to formulate some type of resistance, and at the same time the officer is thinking "crap, what is this guy up to?"

* Note: this pertains to all races and the one color. This is another subject in and of itself: I have noticed that on most Government forms "white" is the only "color" option. Otherwise it's "African-American, Native-American, Asian-American, Spanish-American...etc, and then White." Shouldn't that say something like "European-American"?
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Old 08-25-2014, 09:30 AM
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Ferguson, MO happened- and it has nothing to do with the actions of the people involved, it has nothing to do with race or religion. This whole debacle rest soley in the hands of Politics and the Media...... they saw a platform on which they could stand and the rest is history as they say.


I agree 100%! The media and small political groups are using this as a venue to fly their colours. What a shame.
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Old 08-25-2014, 05:23 PM
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I apologize for the wording and any confusion.

That seems rather odd that you'd say "Just because I ask someone to do something, it doesn't mean they have to comply." and I think this adds to the confusion.

Oh look red and blue lights behind me...I don't have to comply.

Put your hands above your head...I don't have to comply.

Not to be argumentative, but here in NJ, if an officer "requests" that someone do something it is in his/her best interest to do exactly what they say.

So if I'm understanding this correctly in Missouri if the officer tells me to do something it is merely a suggestion?

EDIT: And yes the root of your response was what I was referring to. It's just another unfortunate incident being (for lack of a better term) sensationalized by the media.

The basis of my original question was lost while I was typing and went astray. What I intended to ask was what the requirements are in different regions pertaining to persons complying when an officer lawfully stops them and approaches them.

If an officer has what he believes to be probable cause to stop an individual and...I dunno "interview" him/her, whatever, what is the protocol in your region/area if the person doesn't do as you "suggest"(?)

(Honestly, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just had a question on opinions and can't seem to formulate it in the proper context)

Last edited by Warlock III; 08-25-2014 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 08-25-2014, 06:09 PM
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Doesn't matter if you're in Missouri or New Jersey or New York etc. American Citizens have unalienable rights afforded by the Constitution of the United States.

I think you've taken what I said out of context as there are failure to yield statues and failure to obey statutes that would cover an officer in the situation where they lawfully attempted to stop a vehicle or detain an individual and issue commands to them etc.

Let's say you're walking down the road and I just happen to stop you and start talking with you, after a few moments I ask for your identification. Do you have the right to say no and keep on walking? The answer is yes, if I have no lawful reason to ask for your license other then doing my job by being noisy and thumbing through your business, you have the right to say "F Off" and go on your way.

I stop you for speeding and after a fairly routine and uneventful stop, I ask if you would consent to me searching your vehicle. Do you have the right to say no? Yes, you have the right to say no and unless I have something ALL officers work under called "probable cause" to detain you further, all I get to watch is your tail lights go off into the sunset.

A lot of what we do doesn't fall under a given state law, municipal or county ordinance..... we make generalized contacts with people everyday in the attempt to find something out of place and then hone in on that and make a case.

I don't take anything you say as argumentative, however there is a stark difference between an officer who is enforcing the law (ie speeding, holding someone at gunpoint and issuing commands) vs. our everyday banter that people misunderstand.

How many times have you heard someone complain about "this officer just tossed all my stuff out of my car and didnt find anything and then just walked away". 99% of the time that person also allowed consent of a vehicle search, so their complaint SHOULD fall on deaf ears.

Outside of the Ferguson issue, I believe the American population has become apathetic and lazy and simply wishes to place the blame on someone else for their ignorance. If they were half as informed about their Constitutional Rights as they were about what happened in the latest Kardashian incident, we might not have half the issues we do..... just my .02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock III View Post
I apologize for the wording and any confusion.

That seems rather odd that you'd say "Just because I ask someone to do something, it doesn't mean they have to comply." and I think this adds to the confusion.

Oh look red and blue lights behind me...I don't have to comply.

Put your hands above your head...I don't have to comply.

Not to be argumentative, but here in NJ, if an officer "requests" that someone do something it is in his/her best interest to do exactly what they say.

So if I'm understanding this correctly in Missouri if the officer tells me to do something it is merely a suggestion?

EDIT: And yes the root of your response was what I was referring to. It's just another unfortunate incident being (for lack of a better term) sensationalized by the media.

The basis of my original question was lost while I was typing and went astray. What I intended to ask was what the requirements are in different regions pertaining to persons complying when an officer lawfully stops them and approaches them.

If an officer has what he believes to be probable cause to stop an individual and...I dunno "interview" him/her, whatever, what is the protocol in your region/area if the person doesn't do as you "suggest"(?)

(Honestly, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just had a question on opinions and can't seem to formulate it in the proper context)
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Old 08-25-2014, 06:17 PM
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I think this question is not even something that is regional. It all depends on the policy and procedure set in place by that Officer's Department. Even in the State of Missouri, you can have one department that isn't allowed to pursue fleeing vehicles, while a department 10 miles down the road can pursue only if there is a felony involved with the pursuit, while another agency 5 miles further will let you purse for any reason.

Though you may find more specific policing styles in different regions of the country, however I think you'll find the more you dig, the harder it will be to answer your question bc the answer is there is no set way. Each Department determines what is best for it's jurisdiction and sometimes those decisions are based off what the public wants, what the mayor wants, city council wants etc. etc. etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock III View Post

The basis of my original question was lost while I was typing and went astray. What I intended to ask was what the requirements are in different regions pertaining to persons complying when an officer lawfully stops them and approaches them.

If an officer has what he believes to be probable cause to stop an individual and...I dunno "interview" him/her, whatever, what is the protocol in your region/area if the person doesn't do as you "suggest"(?)

(Honestly, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just had a question on opinions and can't seem to formulate it in the proper context)
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Old 08-25-2014, 06:43 PM
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I understood what context you were referring to. However, as I overemphasized in the examples it was meant to relay how some people can easily take things out of context.

Thanks, I appreciate your input, as well as your opinion.

I know it can't be an easy job and one that probably isn't left at quitting time. I can empathize the pain the family members must feel. I find it hard to believe that an officer would intentionally take the life of another in a situation such as in Ferguson. With all the banter about family, family, family. I doubt very seriously that it didn't effect the officer and that he slept just like any other night he climbed into bed.

Last edited by Warlock III; 08-25-2014 at 06:49 PM.
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