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  #11  
Old 05-19-2010, 09:52 PM
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Oh ok, I will get a polishing compound then.

I have a wax pad and a polishing pad. I will use the polishing pad, it is like a microfiber one. The wax pad was pretty smooth and tough, not soft at all. I think that is what screwed me up!

I will look for a polishing compound then tomorrow and go to work.

So you thnk I should scrap the rubbing compound by hand idea?????



Thanks for all the help guys!!! This is really worrying me and bugging me. I really like to keep my truck clean and in top shape. Me doing this to my truck is killing me inside!
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Old 05-19-2010, 09:55 PM
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Yes.. unless your scratche/swirls are real deep.
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Old 05-19-2010, 09:58 PM
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If they are deep then go with the hand rubbing compound??? So I will use a polishing compound tomorrow and see how it works

I doubt they are deep. I did not really use the polisher hard or in one spot for long. I was doing even strokes with it back and forth.

I HOPE THEY ARE NOT DEEP!!!!! I think I am just trying to make myself feel better haha
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  #14  
Old 05-20-2010, 01:10 AM
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Woah hold up. Lots of misinformation in here, no offense. You all know lots about modifications and technical mechanical stuff- I know lots about detailing. 1st of all, let's remember that we are talking about your truck- most likely your 2nd largest purchase next to your house. Think about how much you've spent on mods and repairs and such. The cost to fix this problem is nothing next to that I'm sure. Also remember that a repaint is a couple grand usually, and that doing something wrong could cost you a lot more than spending a little money now and doing things right.

First off, let's talk about what swirls are.
You're paint has approximately 1.0-1.5 mils (thousandths of an inch) of clearcoat above the base coat. This is designed to protect the base coat (color coat) as well as provide additional gloss. Swirls are thousands of microscopic scratches in the clearcoat. They are actually not circular in shape, rather straight lines. Some people think they don't have swirls, perhaps because they drive a lighter colored car (less noticeable) or because they just never paid attention to them. But I promise you every single car on the road (well, other than people who detail them) is covered in them. The thing is they can only be seen in certain light (reflection of the sun, 1000 watt halogen lamps, intense/high-lumen LED lighting, etc...). Now I know you're thinking "if they can only be seen in certain lighting, why should I care?" The reason is because the scratches cause light to refract in all directions, which means less light reflects off the base coat, which results in a duller, less "shiny" appearance. This image is a good example:



What causes swirls?
Swirls are most often caused (ironically) by washing the car (improperly) or taking it through the car wash. Taking it through the car wash is *horrible* for your car's paint. First of all, you have rubber strips slapping up against your cars paint. Does that sound *good* for your car? How about when you think about the fact that they are covered in dirt from all of the other cars they've washed? And add to that the fact that your car is covered in dirt. It's a huge dirt-rubbing-against-your-paint-fest! "Come on man, it's just a little dirt!" Let's think for a second about what dirt really is. Really small rocks, right? So the car wash is slapping tons and tons of really small rocks up against your paint. Sure, it gets them off, but rubs them all up against your paint in the process, causing swirls. Please avoid the car wash at all costs.
Now some of you may wash your car yourself, because you know the car wash is bad. But you're still swirling it up (hey, I know, I was there too not too long ago. This information is not widely known). Because you are still rubbing the dirt around on your car. Even if you use car wash shampoo and some sort of wash mitt, you most likely are swirling it up (heck, even professional detailers can't avoid it. There is dirt on your vehicle. You *must* physically touch it to move it. This *will* cause abrasion. Proper washing technique though, can minimize it). A good link that describes the proper wash method is this one: http://www.detailedimage.com/Auto-De...ng-and-Drying/.

Now that you have a proper understanding of what those swirls actually are and how they got there, we can talk about removing them. Like I said, they are extremely fine scratches in the clearcoat. The only way to remove them is to polish the paint, which is an abrasive process. Someone earlier in the thread said you should never have to use an abrasive product on your paint. I'm sorry, but (I can't think of another way to put this) that's just wrong lol. Polishing is just compounding on a finer level, although some heavy cut polishes are also considered light compounds. When you polish/compound, you can think of it as if you are sanding the finish down, but on a much much much finer level. A typical corrective polish only takes off about 3-4 microns (remember, the earlier measurement I gave you was mils, which are thousandths of an inch. There are 26 microns in 1 mil), so you are left with plenty of clearcoat. Heavier compounds leave some *hazing*, which is just a rougher, uneven surface. Think of what sanding with 80 grit sandpaper is like and the finish it leaves. That's like using a compound. Just like sanding, you would then need to finish up with something finer, a polish. Polishes are like 600 level (or any fine grade) sandpaper. They are used to clear up the hazing left over and give you a perfectly smooth (flat) surface. This allows all of the light to reflect off of the base coat, giving you the deepest, glossiest shine.
A 50/50 shot:


What do you need to do this?

A machine:
Some people think they can do it by hand. Sure you can wax/seal/glaze by hand, but it's just not possible to get the same results as a machine when polishing. Machine's provide constant, even pressure that doing it by hand simply can't replicate. Machine's also break down the polish much more quickly and require much less energy. Polishing a whole car by hand (if done correctly) would most likely be a multiple day ordeal, and your arm would be so sore.

What machine?
There are two main types of machine for polishing: a rotary polisher and a dual actual (random orbital) polisher. Rotary polishers cant be slightly faster that dual action (DA from here on out) polishers, but require much more skill to use. Improper use could result in a) hologramming or b) burning through the clearcoat. DA's can provide equal results, with little to no risk. It's basically impossible to burn through clearcoat with a DA (I mean really you have to *try* to do it, and even then it's hard), and due to the nature of the polisher, there is no chance of holograms. For this reason, DA polishers are most often used by beginners (although I know many professionals who use them as well. Very effective machines). The most commonly used is the Porter Cable 7424 (referred to as PC). But there are others such as the Flex XC3401VRC, Meguiar's G110, and Griots 6 or 3 inch random polisher. Other machines will not work. This isn't just "buffing." This is a very refined, exact process (we're dealing with 3-4 microns...0.000118 inches). Using other tools could result in burning through clearcoat, leaving holograms all over the paint, not correcting anything (too weak), or creating more marring. The little "buffers" they sell at Autozone for $30 will not work. Those are designed to apply waxes. They a) don't operate fast enough or b) have a strong enough motor to continue to operate under the necessary pressure to break down a polish.

You mentioned you were using a "hand polisher." I'm not sure what exactly you mean by that, but I'm going to guess that it is NOT the right tool for the job.

Also, someone said something about using microfiber pads. DO NOT USE A MICROFIBER PAD TO POLISH WITH! They are extremely harsh and will most likely result in micromarring or hazing all over the finish. Professional detailers only use them on the absolute worst cars, and then have to follow up with a finer step on a FOAM pad. Foam pads are what you need, but you need to get the right foam pad. Some have more cut but don't finish down very fine and leave some micro marring (used for compounding), whereas some are much finer and have no cut at all, but finish down very fine, and some are in the middle. I can help you find the right pad for the job, just PM me and we can talk about it.

What polish do you need?
Well you need to evaluate the current state of your paint. If the paint is extremely beaten up with tons of swirls, and some deeper ones, you will need a "compound" (calm down, it's just a strong polish. We're not talking about the heavy compounds they use to strip paint or after painting) aka heavy polish. You will then most likely need to follow this up with a finer polish to remove any hazing that was left by the cutting polish. There are a ton of them out there, so to recommend one specific product is hard, but again, I can help you figure it out. Just depends on how much you are willing to spend, whether you want something OTC, how perfect you want the paint to be, etc...

That process should remove all the swirls. Although, I'll tell you that Chrysler paint is pretty darn hard, which means correcting it takes longer. Also note that any deeper scratches will remain.

Lastly you'll want to wax it. Waxing, despite what most people think, doesn't add very much shine at all. Most detailers will tell you that the results at 95% prep (correcting the paint) and 5% wax. The wax isn't really there for aesthetics as much as it is protection. Wax provides a barrier between your paint and contaminants. Don't get me wrong, dirt will easily still scratch right through it if you aren't careful. But it helps prevent bird poop etching/tree sap etching/water spot etching/acid rain damage. It also is very slick and helps dirt be removed much more easily thus *minimizing* the chance of swirls. It also happens to cause water to bead up and run off very easily, but that's really not a purpose of it, more like a cool result .

Again, if anyone has any questions, PM me. I'm not employed by any specific company and can give you unbiased opinions on products and such, or can point you to other resources should you wish.

Lastly, there is a TON of misinformation out there on this subject. This information just isn't known to the general public. Take what you hear from family/friends/etc with a grain of salt. Some of them that think they know what they are talking about are actually very wrong.
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  #15  
Old 05-20-2010, 01:41 AM
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OK....I'm impressed 'hockey'! Newbie...20 years old...and he KNOWS what he's talking about.

I have owned black trucks since 1989, and learned the hard way (paint job to fix waxing/polishing/DIY gloss job) ....here's where I stop giving anymore details...tooo embarrassing !!

Having said that, Scat, you can start by doing the polishing thing, and if you get the results that you as happy with, then your done. If not, I'd seriously consider following hockey's advice, and take him up on his offer...PM him and get his help, step by step, product by product. Word of warning though...

If you go the route that hockey's suggesting, you WILL get so completely addicted to the incredibly deep shine, that you will in all likelihood be stuck doing this to every vehicle you own for the rest of your life, or at least until you turn (enter age number you consider old here)!
Yah, it comes out that good.
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Old 05-20-2010, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad12kx View Post
OK....I'm impressed 'hockey'! Newbie...20 years old...and he KNOWS what he's talking about.

I have owned black trucks since 1989, and learned the hard way (paint job to fix waxing/polishing/DIY gloss job) ....here's where I stop giving anymore details...tooo embarrassing !!

Having said that, Scat, you can start by doing the polishing thing, and if you get the results that you as happy with, then your done. If not, I'd seriously consider following hockey's advice, and take him up on his offer...PM him and get his help, step by step, product by product. Word of warning though...

If you go the route that hockey's suggesting, you WILL get so completely addicted to the incredibly deep shine, that you will in all likelihood be stuck doing this to every vehicle you own for the rest of your life, or at least until you turn (enter age number you consider old here)!
Yah, it comes out that good.
Haha thanks. I've spent so much time researching and practicing it all, I hope I know what I'm talking about . And yes, it is addicting, ESPECIALLY on black! But if you ask me, it's worth it. If people already weren't totally envious of your truck, they will be after it's properly detailed.
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Old 05-20-2010, 02:02 AM
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Sad part....sometime between 2004 and 2008, they stopped offering black on the higher end trucks. My last 2 came with "Brilliant Black Crystal Pearlcoat".
In my books...that's NOT Black. It has every color of the rainbow in it somewhere, and doesn't produce the ultra deep shine that you can get form just plan black. But, all my friends think it's black, and they all seem to think the 'sparkles' look great.....I THINK....I need new friends!
Sparkles....
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Old 05-20-2010, 07:37 AM
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And we know what caused his swirl marks.. was not just normal wear and tear.
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Old 05-20-2010, 08:46 AM
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I have the swirls but the problem I am having is the HAZING! I thought the word to describe it was swirls. It looks like shiny circles or soomething like that haha. Its shiny kinda crap looks like it holographic or something.

So this will come out on its own??? Swirls are just those tiny scratches I understand now, I do have those everyone does. I was worried about the shiny kinda look weird in the paint kinda marks.

That was a wicked wright iup hockyplaya! Thank you very much!!! I really appreciate the help!!
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Old 05-20-2010, 11:09 AM
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Hazing really isn't circular or anything, it's more like a lack of clarity. A good example is this picture. The left side was corrected with a heavy cut polish that left some hazing and the right side is uncorrected. You can see how fuzzy the reflection is. That's caused by the hazing. A finishing polish clears this up.

Another good picture is this one:


Swirls do appear circular in shape, but are, like I said, straight. The light from the sun just catches the edges of them in a way that they appear circular. I'm not sure how to explain it. They look like this:
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