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  #231  
Old 08-23-2013, 11:09 AM
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Hell of a build thread, I wish I have the B*lls to tackle something like this on a new truck thats the daily driver. I have taken some notes and have gotten some great ideas on future mods.

Good luck on the water/meth install and Im looking forward to seeing some track times
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  #232  
Old 08-25-2013, 04:53 PM
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Nice looking ride!!!!!!!
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  #233  
Old 08-25-2013, 07:59 PM
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I got most the Water/Meth kit in,
too freaking Hot out to work more than an hour in between beer brakes.

I tapped the stock washer fluid tank at the lowest point I could easily access with my drill without too much trouble.
.....just to the left of the stock washer fluid pump location.







Found a great spot for the 250psi pump last week but never got around to mounting it until today
Vertical part of frame just behind/below the drivers headlight looked like the perfect size for the pump bracket...
Well protected there and it's real close to the washer fluid tank and Fuse Box for electrical connections.

I laid the pump horizontally to test fit, (instructions said it could mount vertically or horizontally)
inlet nozzle sits nice and low and points toward my pump tap location and just a few inches lower (gravity feed),
Top outlet fitting angled and hose should be easily routed to the intake tube from the top now.



Here's the view from the wheel well looking forward, (E-Fan to the right) after removing the drivers side tire and wheel well liner...



I used a roll of electrical tape as a temporary spacer and marked the mounting screws locations for drilling the pilot holes





There's just enough room to route about 8" of tubing beside the lower corner of the rad to my washer tank tap location...



LED spray indicator light now wired and mounted next to my Boost Gauge so I can monitor what psi the boost switch is set at ...



I just need to tap/mount the dual spray nozzles into the Intake Tube, still a bit nervous about that step
Then hook up the LED to the Boost Switch and tap that into my Vacuum line and dial it in for about 4.5-5psi.
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Last edited by BlackRamHemi; 08-25-2013 at 09:47 PM.
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  #234  
Old 09-01-2013, 02:59 PM
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Looking good! I wonder if you could use a nitrous injection plate for your water/meth instead of drilling a hole in the intake. It would be another expense but whats another $200 after a few thousand.
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  #235  
Old 09-01-2013, 05:21 PM
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Unlike N2o, if Water/Meth is too close to the TB it's not good for even air/water/meth mix into the combustion chamber.

and any nozzle placed after the butterfly would be under vacuum when the blade closes and would suck water in from the pump.(bad)

I found a little more info about nozzle locations to consider:
(general info for multiple turbo/supercharger setups)

Before the intake air temp sensor may be beneficial because the computer will automatically add more timing because it reads the intake charge as cooler.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/...jection-nozzle

Well let's first start with where not to place the nozzle. When placing your water injection nozzle makes sure you do not place the nozzle upstream of a MAF or mass air flow sensor. Fluid running through this sensor can damage these sensors on some particular engines. Next we recommend not installing these pre-intercooler unless you are injecting pre-blower on a supercharged engine that has an intake mounted intercooler. Injecting before front mount intercooler can cause the water-alcohol mixture to collect at the bottom because of the restriction of the tubes. Okay, now we know where not to place the nozzle, lets get on to where to place it.


1) Pre-Turbo Water

We don't recommend this location at all if you do not have the proper equipment such as the proper nozzle, nozzle size and high pressure pump. Locating the nozzle here is the most controversial location. The majority of alcohol/water injection users do not use this location. One reason for someone to inject at this location is the water/methanol mixture chemically alters the turbo compressor map. The water/methanol injection will dynamically shifts the compressor map of the turbo so that it has the compressor map exhibits the characteristics of a larger turbo. This sounds great but, the main issue with pre-turbo nozzle placement is what mixture can damage the compressor blade if the mixture is not properly atomized when passing through the turbo.
In order to inject pre-turbo with out compressor damage you need a high quality low volume nozzle and high enough pressure to get the water as finely misted as possible, and the smaller nozzle which allows for smaller/finer water droplets. We recommend you mount the nozzle as close to the compressor as possible.



2) Pre-Intercooler

Pre-intercooler seems like a sensible nozzle location but, the thing to think about is if the air entering the IC is pre-cooled, the ability of the intercooler is because the temp difference is lesser. It is also possible for the fine water/alcohol mist to collect in the bottom of your intercooler core. We don't recommend this location either. The other problem is that there's a possibility that the hot air from the turbo might unnecessarily vaporize the water and take up some of the volume built up by the turbo that was supposed to be for the charge. Pre-IC does work for some track cars such as road racing that operate at a more constant higher RPM. For the daily driver, weekend racer, the pre-intercooler location should not be considered.




3) Post-Intecooler

Most computer controlled engines have an intake air temperature (IAT) sensor. This sensor monitors the temperature of the air going into the motor. The reason for putting it before the IAT sensor is because it will see the cooler temps and the engine will advance timing, allowing for more power. Also placing the injection nozzle as far from the cylinders/air intake sensor as possible, it allows for the water/methanol mixture to be better absorbed into the intake air charge. This allows for great distribution to each cylinder. This post intercooler nozzle location should be the primary nozzle location to be considered for most users.

In theory, since the air charge will be mixed for a longer distance, and therefore time, allowing for the moisture to be absorbed by the air, creating the coolest possible air charge going into the cylinders. Water/methanol molecules from a nozzle located here have more time to be absorbed by the intake charge exiting the IC before making it into the combustion chamber.


4) Pre Intake Air Temo Sensor

In the cold side charge pipe is usually an easier or less intrusive nozzle location for most user's than the IC exit tank, but still the closer to IC the better. Locating the nozzle here has same as for reason given in above (location 3)

5) After the Air Intake Sensor:

You can usually mount it either before or after the ‘butterfly' and still be after the air intake temperature sensor. The main difference when mounting the injector before or after the butterfly is there is less vacuum before versus after the butterfly when idling or driving in vacuum. Translation, when in vacuum, there is more vacuum after the butterfly than before it. Here is why this is important: If your solenoid is placed very far from the injectors (more than a couple of feet), then the vacuum can actually suck just a little bit of the water/methanol. This small amount of moisture ingestion during vacuum is not a problem.

6). Intake Manifold

This location can be the most complex area to install. Usually requiring that he intake be removed for access. Injecting here is going to yield the largest water/methanol droplets. And with the closer proximity to the combustion chambers is going to provide a larger amount of mixture into the cylinders. Doing this usually requires more fuel from the factory system be removed. This option is best for max cooling.
The water here is being injected in a manner much like port fuel injection and it is the bigger water molecules being injected here that have a more direct effect of in cylinder cooling and injection here has more of an effect of altering the flame front of the combustion charge in a way much like a higher octane fuel. To take full advantage of this nozzle location it is suggested that trimming away some of the factory dumped fuel be done. In other words, in order to take advantage of the better properties of water over fuel for cooling and injecting water at this location, you want to remove the dumped fuel and actually REPLACE this with water. This injection point with a pretty sophisticated WI control method allows for the most advantageous use of water injection. The drawback for nozzles located heres is kit/component complexity, install complexity, additional labor, possible machine shop costs, and possible additional parts costs.



================================================== ======

Since I upgraded to a Dual Nozzle kit,
I'll likely place one just before the BOV (4) and one directly after IAT sensor. (5)

The first one to evaporate and cool the charge and have the pcm advance the timing,
the second to enter the combustion chamber in an even air/water/meth mixture to prevent detonation.

I would have done it today,
but had to hit 5 hardware stores before I could locate a 1/8"-27 NPT Tap to match my 11/32's drill bit.
Pissed most of the day away running around and was to frustrated to do any work after I cracked my first beer of the day.

If its not to hot out, I'll hopefully wrap it up by noon tomorrow





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Last edited by BlackRamHemi; 09-01-2013 at 08:53 PM.
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  #236  
Old 09-01-2013, 05:33 PM
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Seems like a logical plan, why not utilize the 2 best locations. Looking forward to seeing this up and running! I love the direction you are taking with your truck, doing it right the first time. Im kinda copy cating your build, just with a 2013 crew, jba's are on their way!
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  #237  
Old 09-02-2013, 05:06 PM
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All Meth'd up and no place to Go

Well I finally decided to go with what looks best,
3 and 9 o'clock (after I trimmed the coupler back almost an inch).

At first I thought I would try one nozzle pre IAT sensor to trick the pcm into adding more timing
But decided this morning that if I want to advance the timing I'll have my CMR add it to my tune on a Dyno
vs me trying to trick the sensor.

Mounted the boost switch tap just before the blow-off valve
and tapped the two nozzles to face each other just after the IAT sensor

That way the spray pattern from both nozzles meets in the middle of the tube
just before dumping into the TB.

View from the underside:










Shake down run saw it kick in at 4.5psi (max boost just about 9)
WOT throttle A/F reading at 10.3 ...way to fat so I'll have my CMR fix that soon by advancing my timing when he does my custom tune.

Fluid mix level is about 60/40 (water/meth) -35 washer fluid

I need to gut my cats next, since the mid pipes come off for the trans swap I guess I'll just do them then.
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Last edited by BlackRamHemi; 09-02-2013 at 06:00 PM.
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  #238  
Old 09-06-2013, 11:58 AM
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it looks great! nice work on the placement and install. Hows she running now? Any noticeable difference?
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  #239  
Old 09-06-2013, 12:58 PM
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Lookin good! How do you like the Bully Dog?
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  #240  
Old 09-06-2013, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer41 View Post
Lookin good! How do you like the Bully Dog?
Dropped that turd almost 3 years ago for a superior Diablosport Trinity

Went from a string of 14.2's and 14.3's to 13.8's-13.9's instantly
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