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Custom Dodge Ram Performance Mods - Engine - 5.7 HEMI V8 Discuss modifying your Dodge Ram with Performance Parts and Accessories!
Factory Spec: 5.7-liter HEMI® V8 engine - 390 horsepower, 407 lb-ft of torque.


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  #11  
Old 02-06-2011, 07:19 PM
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it's a cool idea but like mach01 said, you won't get the real benefits from it unless you are a high hp/boost setup.
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Old 02-06-2011, 08:06 PM
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E-85 is available all over Houston. I'm very interested in your results.

Ethanol is a very 'misunderstood' fuel. Rumors, half truths, and just plain BS seem to follow it wherever it goes. People who have truly done their research will see there are posts in this very thread that fall into all those catagories.

Not gonna play mythbusters here, but I am very interested in the OP's results.

Is it "worth it"? Well, that will depend on several factor's,,, Factors that will not be 'universal' for everyone,,,

I'm running a 91 tune,,,, 93 octane currently runs about $3.16 or so,,, ~105~ octane E-85 can be had right down the street for about $2.60. I routinely get 20 MPG hwy w/$3.16 fuel. $ for $, mile per mile, If an alternative fuel is priced at $2.60, the 'break even' mpg is 16.46. That's roughly a 17% 'spread'

Years ago, typical mpg loss from going from ZERO % alcohol to E-85 was around 30%. A lot of the sites selling E-85 conversion 'kits' are indicating a mpg loss of 5-15% when going from E-10 to E-85 with their kit.

Hopefully, we can get some good data back from the OP. Perhaps then each one of us can decide if it's 'right' for us or not. Would not suprise me that it will end up being a split decision.

Last edited by HoustonHemi; 02-06-2011 at 08:10 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-06-2011, 10:37 PM
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If your talking about me I speak the truth because I have ran a E-85 setup on a car but it was because i was running good power and a big blower. and yes the gas consumption is thru the roof, there is 30% programmed into the fuel tables my tuner showed me the tables, that is why you have to have a huge fuel system to run it. Oh nevermind its like arguing with a tree. Go ahead waste your money lol! the gain is not worth it for the price unless your making huge numbers and need the cooling effects, and high octane damn it here i go again talking about crap i have must have never done before.
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  #14  
Old 02-08-2011, 10:25 PM
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Please remember that not all of us are looking to race or run 'a big blower', so perhaps the knowledge you claim to possess is not quite as applicable as you might think.

Nor do I believe the OP plans on setting any world speed records with this mod,,,

(We are allowed to mod, correct?)

In the OP's case, he's heard that he could pick up some HP and wants to try it. In going 'full blown' E-85, it's safe to say he'll gain some HP and drop some percentage of mpg, but I'm willing to say it won't be a 30% loss. The fuel will obviously be cheaper. (TONS of E-85 'up north' = better pricing than here in TX)

Here's another 'twist' on Ethanol.

I can pay $3.16 for 93 to support my SC 91 tune in my daily driver, or run a ~30~% E blend that costs about $2.75. (No modifications required) A 41 cent spread is roughly 15% of $2.75, meaning, in order to justify the 93 pump gas, the mileage gain over the E-blend should be 15%. So far, this has not been the case, as I have not encountered a 15% drop running the blend.

Yeah, it ain't as 'sexy' as 'big power, big blower', but us poor folks have to have fun too!
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  #15  
Old 02-08-2011, 10:45 PM
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I have to agree with Heff... IT does work awesome for High HP blown cars. Although I am interested in seeing how this performs overall with the OP truck. I just wouldn't do it to mine, I can use my programmer and get a sweet dyno tune and run very good and still get my 19-21 SMILES per gallon.
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  #16  
Old 02-08-2011, 11:01 PM
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To the original poster, my experience with E85 is that you HAVE to have a good tuner who understands what E85 does. A few things that come to mind are E85 has a different stoichometric air fuel ratio than gasoline's 14.7. The stoich AFR for E85 (at 85% Ethanol) is 9.76. The stoich value represents an ideal perfect burn of the fuel usually used at part throttle conditions. Full throttle conditions require a richer mixture than stoich to prevent the dreaded detonation, or pinging.A good AF gauge is a must and if your in Wisconsin and you have to go to Chicago......

Another thing is it requires about 20% more fuel at part throttle, and about 40% more fuel at wide open throttle (WOT) so ensure you have adequate fuel flow to the cylinder before you begin. This is where the experience of a professional tuner becomes important to understand just how much fuel to add and when, to make the perfect fuel curve.

The difference in tuning requirements for various blends of E85 that change with the season. During the cold winter months, more gasoline is added to E85 by the fuel distributor before it gets to the station pumps. This is to aide in cold weather starting where ethanol vapors are less than adequate for starting conditions. For a true flex fuel vehicle there is a sensor that reads this ratio of ethanol and adjusts an internal ethanol table used to modify fuel and timing tables for proper fuel burn.If your truck is not equipped with this sensor AF ratios are going to critical to know what blend your running.

But hey what the hell do I know, I'm just a poor ole guy wasting his time in the garage. Good luck buddy, keep us updated.
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  #17  
Old 02-08-2011, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHemi View Post
Please remember that not all of us are looking to race or run 'a big blower', so perhaps the knowledge you claim to possess is not quite as applicable as you might think.

Nor do I believe the OP plans on setting any world speed records with this mod,,,

(We are allowed to mod, correct?)

In the OP's case, he's heard that he could pick up some HP and wants to try it. In going 'full blown' E-85, it's safe to say he'll gain some HP and drop some percentage of mpg, but I'm willing to say it won't be a 30% loss. The fuel will obviously be cheaper. (TONS of E-85 'up north' = better pricing than here in TX)

Here's another 'twist' on Ethanol.

I can pay $3.16 for 93 to support my SC 91 tune in my daily driver, or run a ~30~% E blend that costs about $2.75. (No modifications required) A 41 cent spread is roughly 15% of $2.75, meaning, in order to justify the 93 pump gas, the mileage gain over the E-blend should be 15%. So far, this has not been the case, as I have not encountered a 15% drop running the blend.

Yeah, it ain't as 'sexy' as 'big power, big blower', but us poor folks have to have fun too!

This has turned into a great thread. I think what it will boil down to is posting up actual results. I wasnt really looking for a power gain, just the ability to run E85. My driving situation is alot of country roads, 45-50 mph is about max. I have about 400 miles on the truck now, average mpg on the first tank(not sure if it was 89-92, as the dealer filled it up) was 13 mpg. Now take into consideration that it is in the single digits, roads are slippery and I have been trying out the power a little too.. I don't think 13 is to bad. 89 is around $3.16, 92 is around $331, E85 is steady at $2.58. I will post up when its down.
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  #18  
Old 02-08-2011, 11:46 PM
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If you do the E85 swap, you have to do a turbo, so I can do mine right after!
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  #19  
Old 02-09-2011, 06:28 AM
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Don't get me wrong I think it's a cool mod to try but also keep in mind if you are doing it save approx 70 cents per gallon it'll take 80+ tanks of gas to pay itself off.

I figure if you are saving $15/per (0.70 *23) tank and the kit is $1200 then that is 80 tanks of gas. I guess depending on your mileage that could be anywhere up to 4-5 years before you break even.
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  #20  
Old 02-09-2011, 08:04 AM
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damn it you are making me do math! keep in mind this is all redneck rough math and not actual but lets base this on 15,000 miles a year and a fuel tank size of 26 gallons. So e-85 it costs you $2.58 a gallon and 91 gas costs $3.31 a gallon. Ok this is going to get long winded i think but i actually am curious on the numbers. On E-85 at a 30% loss your going to average 9 miles per gallon give or take and 91 gas you will average 13 as per stated by op this is based on his truck which he stated gets 13mpg. 91 gas will use 1153 gallons per 15,000 miles which =$3816, and e-85 will use 1666 gallons per 15000 miles which = $4300. So that is a difference of $483.50 every 15,000 miles. So with that math it will take op 3 years to get back the difference on what he spent on the kit, but if you add in tuning which is always somewhere around 300-500 a pop and a good wideband setup another 500 then your looking at about 5 years to pay off said investment with the return from E-85. So my conclusion is if you keep a vehicle for life it is probably worth it but if your like me and get a new one every 8 months or so it would never pay itself off.
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