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  #21  
Old 03-12-2011, 07:18 PM
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In the long run, yes, E-85 isn't worth it.
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  #22  
Old 03-12-2011, 07:51 PM
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Yea, but what you guys are forgetting is that in the alternate universe known as Washington D.C., logic and reason are things that don't exist. The only things that exist in D.C are power, political agendas, money, and sex (never forget the sex! That gets you power and money right there.) In a reasonable room of people, someone proposing the use of Ethanol would would be laughed out of the room. In fact I believe the concept of Ethanol had been around for a while before it was actually implemented. I think it was laughed at for many years until the Environmentalists got a foothold in D.C.
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  #23  
Old 03-12-2011, 08:05 PM
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The big push for ethanol is that it can be made from a natural substance and is renewable, that's it; it's no better for the environment, but it doesn't require the same amount of expenditure and massive environmental impact that comes from drilling for/processing of crude oil.
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  #24  
Old 03-12-2011, 11:31 PM
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ethanol treatment is for use in vehicles that sit unused for longer than normal periods and have fuel with 10% ethanol in them. The reason is that ethonal collects moisture from the air in the tank causing water to form and collect in the tank. Water in the tank is bad. He must have had water in his tank and thats why they said he needed the treatment. If you look at fuel treatments such as stable, they have regular and ethanol formula. I know about this because I have several seadoos and jet skis that were always getting water in the tanks after being stored for the winter, my mechanic told me to start using stable ethanol treatment and I would not have the problem anymore, he was right. I know we are talking about our trucks here and not jet skis but the same applies, just my 2 cents.
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  #25  
Old 03-13-2011, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad12kx View Post
Like RamTech said, you need more of it, hence poor mileage.

Here's the math -
Ethanol has a BTU factor of 1.8 compared to gasoline. Takes 1.8 times the amount of ethanol to generate the same BTU's of energy as gasoline.

E85 = 85% Ethanol, 15% gasoline

1.8 x 85/100 = 1.53

Based on that, you should realistically expect to require 1.53times as much E85 fuel as you would gasoline to operate your vehicle. This would roughly equate to a 35% reduction in mileage. So if you get 18mpg with gasoline, then expect 11-12mpg with E85.

Does this jive with your experience? If so, math wins! If not, I'll retake Grade 1.

The manual says that you can expect about 30% decrease in MPG with E85 fuel in your flex-fuel vehicle. The manual also says that flex-fuel vehicles using E85 fuel may experience 1) hard start, 2) rough idle, 3) and sags/hesitations until engine is warmed up if ambient temp. is 0 degrees F or lower, or if ambient temp is above 90 degrees F. The flex-fuel vehicles can't even run this crap gas well.

Their are also three recomendations listed in that manual that you should follow when swithcing from E85 to 87 octane gas, but alternating fuel types is not recommended. If you alternate, then don't switch from one to the other with less than a 1/4 full tank, don't add less than 5 gallons, and let the vehicle run for atleast 5 minutes after switching fuel types. Yah, that E85 is a brilliant idea.

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  #26  
Old 03-13-2011, 04:54 PM
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I'm sure glad the manual agrees with the math....I was not looking forward to re-visiting Grade 1.

IMO, E85 is nothing more than Government 'Feel Good' fuel. I just can't find a true benefit to it. There is the argument of it being a 'renewable' resource.....My jury's out on that being a true benefit, as any Ethanol plants I've visited, require massive energy for the distillation process, and I have to wonder about the Final carbon footprint.
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  #27  
Old 03-14-2011, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CdnoilRAM View Post
The big push for ethanol is that it can be made from a natural substance and is renewable, that's it; it's no better for the environment, but it doesn't require the same amount of expenditure and massive environmental impact that comes from drilling for/processing of crude oil.
That's all fine and good til you realize that it takes more petroleum products to make it than it would to just make regular gas.
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  #28  
Old 03-14-2011, 05:49 PM
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The gas around here is making my vehicles shake more than usual. Drove both my Mustang & Ram and they both idle rough. Geez, I hate this crap!
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  #29  
Old 03-14-2011, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellesar View Post
That's all fine and good til you realize that it takes more petroleum products to make it than it would to just make regular gas.
The figures I've seen are that ethanol is a net 26-33% energy loser.

GTyankee and Ram15002ndgen have both made valid points.

Corn farming is petro-chemical intensive. With corn prices of around $6.80/bushel (south central Nebraska), corn farmers don't need a subsidy. I was in the cattle business for 35 years and bought lots of corn. Cattle feeders never got a subsidy of any kind. Neither did pig farmers AFAIK. Crop, dairy and sheep farmer's got plenty of government (our) money. I'm really glad I retired from the cattle business. It makes me weak in the knees to think about paying today's prices for corn for cattle feeding.

Other crops are more efficient for conversion to ethanol. For those really interested, here's a good (long) read on the Brazilian ethanol industry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil I think there's been some research on using switchgrass for ethanol production in this country which would use considerably less inputs for production.

For the US, ethanol is a money loser (especially for the taxpayer's) and I'd like to see the whole thing disappear.

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  #30  
Old 03-19-2011, 10:13 AM
gtknoles gtknoles is offline
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Okay here is the final discussion. My 5.7 Hemi Big Horn rolled into the dealer was less than 5 minutes in the bay when the service manager said, " Your truck needs an ethanol treatment" No ethanol test was performed and this was the first service for the truck. An upsell all the way! Not required in the service manual.
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