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  #291  
Old 08-25-2011, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by snrusnak View Post
I keep saying I'm not going to post in this thread anymore since it's gotten so distorted lol but like someone else said it's like driving past an accident and you can't help but to stop and look! So this is it haha....the above statement isn't really necessarily true.... a measurement of boost is actually a measurement of how restrictive the intake tract is...it's a measurement of how much pressure is in the intake, so if you have a free flowing intake it will have less boost, not necessarily less power...I think you'd find that the most high performance forced induction engines do not run massive amounts of boost, most will run like 10 or 12 psi at most. Usually you see higher boost numbers on lower performance engines that are boosted, like some stock engine with a turbo kit. Anyway, both trucks are different styles, turbo small displacement vs NA large displacement, and they both basically do the same job and both do it well, so I think in reality it comes down to all the other factors, as the acceleration and pulling power are comparable between the two.
Dude...a measurement of boost is a measurement of air, 50% more boost (more air) is 50% more power with about 30 to 40% improvement because when you pack air into the cylinders you loose power in the turbine spin which creates restriction in the exhaust, lol! That's why you see short exhaust pipes on 1500 plus HP race cars. Intake/heads play a large part in airflow for forced induction, you need more air flow. Therefore like I said, this engine has to be a forged build along with everything else extra beefy connected to to it. And 13 lbs of boost is high for a street truck, 6 to 8 lbs of boost is normal for the street. Second Life, I don't doubt you because you seem to obviously know more about the EB than me. I just didn't figure Ford running 13 lbs of boost on a 97 oct (lol...I meant 87) street truck.

Last edited by RadioFlyer; 08-25-2011 at 07:17 AM. Reason: typo
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  #292  
Old 08-25-2011, 07:58 AM
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Boost is not the measure of how much volume or air is flowing through the engine, it is a measure of how much air pressure is in the intake. More pressure does not equal more power. For example, if the intake runners in the heads were only 1/4" diameter, you would have a massive amount of boost, and very liittle power output as the heads can't flow the amount of air you're trying to force into them. Take the same turbo and engine, and open up the intake ports to a normal size, like 2 or 3", and your boost will drop drastically but your power output will increase drastically as well, the heads are able to flow the air your forcing into them. Also, there is not a linear relationship between airflow through an engine and power output, so increasing airflow through the engine by 50% does not necessarily or usually increase power output by 50%.
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  #293  
Old 08-25-2011, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by snrusnak View Post
Boost is not the measure of how much volume or air is flowing through the engine, it is a measure of how much air pressure is in the intake. More pressure does not equal more power. For example, if the intake runners in the heads were only 1/4" diameter, you would have a massive amount of boost, and very liittle power output as the heads can't flow the amount of air you're trying to force into them. Take the same turbo and engine, and open up the intake ports to a normal size, like 2 or 3", and your boost will drop drastically but your power output will increase drastically as well, the heads are able to flow the air your forcing into them. Also, there is not a linear relationship between airflow through an engine and power output, so increasing airflow through the engine by 50% does not necessarily or usually increase power output by 50%.
Where do you think the pressure comes from dipsh**, he he! (plz don't take offense) I just got finished telling you that the reason why you don't get the 50% increase in power is because you lose it in the turbine spin. Having a turbine in the exhaust flow increases the restriction in the exhaust therefore only seeing a 30 to 40% increase in performance...duh!!!!!!!!!!!! More air equates to bigger eplosions, more air...allows for more fuel, more fuel...bigger ka....booms. If that's the case, I'll take the 26lbs of boost and you take the 13lbs on the same engine
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  #294  
Old 08-25-2011, 10:16 AM
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You just don't get the concept of volumetric efficiency. You can pressurize an intake runner with the intake valve closed and achieve 50lb's of boost on your gauge, but there is 0 air flow. Is that producing alot of power? Boost measurement is relative, it does not directly indicate volumetric flow. All that matters is flow.

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Where do you think the pressure comes from dipsh**, he he! (plz don't take offense)
The pressure comes from the amount of restriction in the intake, I explained this above, boost is the measurement of how restrictive the intake is, not any sort of measurement of what volume of air is flowing through the intake. It is the same concept of a vacuum gauge.

I may be a young dipsht, but apparently I'm not that stupid as I've learned to treat people with respect in my mere 24 years, whereas you still haven't learned how to do that in over double the time...

You can't say whatever you want to someone and add "no offense" after it and think that makes it ok to be rude...
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  #295  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackRamHemi View Post
Can anyone find the actual specs on the weight for the Supercab EB with a short box
....as it (in 2wd/4wd) compares to a RCSB Hemi Ram?
My RCSB 4x4 is around 5200 depending on how much fuel is in my tank, BakFlip tonneau and larger A/T tires,
I believe the Ram QC 4x4 is about 5600-5700.

according some websites, the tested weight at the track is for a Supercab (2wd?) loaded Lariat is only around 5400lbs
Reason I ask is because some posts make it sound like a SCSB EB vs RCSB Hemi is like comparing an aircraft carrier to a ski boat.

...in person the SC/SB looks barely large enough to call an extended cab,
My buddies QC Hemi 4x4 With 4 doors is only about 400-500lbs over my RCSB 4x4...so I would guestimate the supercab somewhere in between. 5300-5400?

Ford.ca lists the SC/SB 2wd at 5043 curb and the SC/SB 4wd at 5,333lbs. but that's usually dry weight.


Supercab F150 2x4
GVWR*____ Maximum Payload
7050lbs ____ 1810lbs = 5240lbs
7500lbs ____ 2070lbs = 5430lbs

Supercab F150 4x4
GVWR* ____ Maximum Payload
7200lbs ____ 1760lbs = 5440lbs
7700lbs ____ 2080lbs = 5620lbs

*Gross Vehicule Weight Rating

Dry weight should be around that.


A regular cab, short box F150 5.0L V8 should be around 4820lbs. Of course all weight figure are dry. I don't think Ford weight their truck wet.
So had 26gal. of fuel to any Ecoboost engine. 1 US gal is around 6.3lbs.
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Last edited by Second Life; 08-25-2011 at 11:35 AM.
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  #296  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackRamHemi View Post
We had a rematch of the dealer shoot out Wednesday night,
but no F-150's even showed up. Cant blame them it was Brutal Hot
The DA was over 4200' at 4pm when I left for the track.

So I never bothered to take off my spare, or BakFlip tonneau,
Never swapped on my faster Drag Radials and ran at full street weight and then some.

No track prep at all so traction was Brutal!
Heavy 305/50R20 Terra Grapplers (lousy track tire) are 90lbs ea.
...and still pulled of a 14.498/93.96 (13.876/98.238 DA corrected)..with 3.55 gears

That white supercab EB was running 15.1-15.3's just last week,
on a much cooler day when the DA was only 2900, forgot to ask him what gear ratio he had
anyone know what the options are for a 4x4 supercab EB?

3.31, 3.55 and 3.73

FX4 can have 4.10


That XLT could have the stock 3.31, since 3.55 or 3.73 or optional.
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  #297  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by RadioFlyer View Post
Where do you think the pressure comes from dipsh**, he he! (plz don't take offense) I just got finished telling you that the reason why you don't get the 50% increase in power is because you lose it in the turbine spin. Having a turbine in the exhaust flow increases the restriction in the exhaust therefore only seeing a 30 to 40% increase in performance...duh!!!!!!!!!!!! More air equates to bigger eplosions, more air...allows for more fuel, more fuel...bigger ka....booms. If that's the case, I'll take the 26lbs of boost and you take the 13lbs on the same engine

I'll take 13psi on the Ecoboost with twin GT35R turbo and you can put 26psi with stock turbo's.

Wanna race?
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  #298  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by snrusnak View Post
You just don't get the concept of volumetric efficiency. You can pressurize an intake runner with the intake valve closed and achieve 50lb's of boost on your gauge, but there is 0 air flow. Is that producing alot of power? Boost measurement is relative, it does not directly indicate volumetric flow. All that matters is flow.



The pressure comes from the amount of restriction in the intake, I explained this above, boost is the measurement of how restrictive the intake is, not any sort of measurement of what volume of air is flowing through the intake. It is the same concept of a vacuum gauge.

I may be a young dipsht, but apparently I'm not that stupid as I've learned to treat people with respect in my mere 24 years, whereas you still haven't learned how to do that in over double the time...

You can't say whatever you want to someone and add "no offense" after it and think that makes it ok to be rude...
Lol, I'll be the old dipsh**, I always thought the pressure came from the compressor. What ever the case my turbo build would be with a lower compression ratio, a high volume vortex or magnus intake manifold, cnc port and polished heads and a large chamber volume. That being the said, according to you mine wouldn't work out with the high volume intake. I guess I've been wrong all along...you win, lol!
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  #299  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Second Life View Post
I'll take 13psi on the Ecoboost with twin GT35R turbo and you can put 26psi with stock turbo's.

Wanna race?
I don't follow you, 26 lbs on what on what engine, because you won't get that on the EB with those pistons.
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  #300  
Old 08-25-2011, 06:54 PM
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Radio -Here's my example to help try and clear things up:

let's say you have a s/c with a 3" snout pulley and on a particular engine setup your guage shows 12 psi. If you install longtubes you'll prob see about 1-1.5 psi drop in boost b/c the engine is more efficient but the s/c is spinning at the same RPM....remember still have the same 3" pulley installed. After getting it retuned for the L/Ts you also would've seen an increase in hp even though your psi is lower...remember same 3" pulley. Not that anyone would ever do this but if you removed L/Ts in favor of some crappy cast iron exhaust manifolds the opposite would happen. The psi would go back up and you'd lose a little but of hp.
I give this example b/c this is exactly what I saw on my project car...same s/c & crank pulley and a small drop in boost with an increase in hp after installing L/Ts.

Boost PSI is a measure of restriction. The compressor does build the boost but you can manipulate it by making your engine more efficient. P&P your heads and you'll prob see another small drop in PSI with a hp increase if you don't change the s/c pulley.

Now yes, swapping to a smaller pulley and creating more boost usually does add hp but only to a point when something in the airflow creates such a restriction that you don't see anymore gains. Maybe the heads, exhaust, throttle body, CAI.

Kenne Bell has actually done many tests showing that positive displacement blowers hate restrictioins before the blower (i.e. larger CAI and/or throttle body). At lower boost levels, swapping to a huge t/b or CAI won't reward you with much to brag about but above 14 psi is when the t/b or CAI become the restriction and swapping to a bigger t/b or CAI will net some good gains!
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