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Custom Dodge Ram Performance Mods - Engine - 4.7 Liter V8 Discuss modifying your Dodge Ram with Performance Parts and Accessories!
Factory Spec: 4.7-liter V8 engine - 310 horsepower, 330 lb-ft of torque.


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  #111  
Old 02-02-2012, 07:41 PM
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Lol, I build all of my engines with race ground clearences so I can race them with no beeakin period . I adjust my solid lifters with gauges but I don't have to gauge anything when it comes to hydraulic lifters, lol! And I have used match book covers to set spark plugs and dual point distributors successfully now that you mention it, lol! Matchbook covers are around 15 to .016 thick...perfect for points or doubling for a .035 spark plug setting I also use different methods to restrict oil to the top end when using solids and different methods to increase valvetrain oiling in general. Yes I can see and come very close or close enough to get by eyeballing (lol) when it's not critical as how much preload adjustment I can play with safely. Like I said measure it if you need to, he did use the thickest he could use that would allow the valves to completely close. I'm saying don't go that far, there's no need to...understand? His rockers were falling off, they weren't just tapping.
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  #112  
Old 02-02-2012, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by IN2H2O View Post
I think you two seem to have forgotten that this engine ran perfectly quiet for over 800 miles before starting to clack. If the bore is too deep then it would have always been too deep.
That just tells me that even new lifters will eventually break down because of poor oiling. Something that will most likely happen when this shimmed engine also gets 800 miles on it. So you can't get to the oil pump from inside the crankcase by removing the oil pan?
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  #113  
Old 02-02-2012, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RadioFlyer View Post
That just tells me that even new lifters will eventually break down because of poor oiling. Something that will most likely happen when this shimmed engine also gets 800 miles on it. So you can't get to the oil pump from inside the crankcase by removing the oil pan?

No such luck. Reference the pics I posted. The oil pump slides over the crank before the timing gears get assembled. You must remove the entire timing assembly first.



I will yank and tear down the entire engine to find the restriction before I would simply put a bandaid on it like a HV Pump. End of discussion.

Last edited by IN2H2O; 02-02-2012 at 08:23 PM.
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  #114  
Old 02-02-2012, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
I think you two seem to have forgotten that this engine ran perfectly quiet for over 800 miles before starting to clack. If the bore is too deep then it would have always been too deep.
That's a good point, I guess I forgot you are reusing the same heads.
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  #115  
Old 02-02-2012, 09:00 PM
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That's a good point, I guess I forgot you are reusing the same heads.
Yup, original heads with original lifters to start as well. Also, only one lifter is making noise while all are getting oil. The one that is making noise is at the very end of the gallery, where any debris would have been washed down to. Process or reduction and elimination says that I have a restriction to that single assembly.

If that is the case, I am very confident that my Vac setup is going to do the trick. Should only take a half hour or so to execute too. Hardest part is going to be getting around to the back of the head. Once the hose is installed, i have a couple options too. I can blow back down the lifter hole and into the tube without risking blowing debris elsewhere or I can swap the VAC for an air line and blow it out the other way. Either way, I will be able to clean out the entire gallery without tearing into anything.

If this does not do the trick, then I have more serious issues that must be resolved and i will be yanking the engine. I have engine removal down to about 2.5 hrs so it should be a good long day to yank it, break it down, reassemble and slip it back in.
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  #116  
Old 02-02-2012, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by IN2H2O View Post
No such luck. Reference the pics I posted. The oil pump slides over the crank before the timing gears get assembled. You must remove the entire timing assembly first.



End of discussion.
Hey....that's not fair, lol! How much oil pressure do you have at cold start and then hot at idle? Did it fluxuate durring the 800 miles?
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  #117  
Old 02-02-2012, 09:11 PM
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cool I hope the vac works out for you.
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  #118  
Old 02-02-2012, 09:17 PM
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Oil pressure shoots right up to 2 needle widths above the halfway mark on startup and stays there till warmed up. It drops down to about 1/3 on idle. Slightly higher overall pressure than my old engine. I have been watching it like a hawk and it hasn't changed since initial startup.

I should note that I have changed my Cluster faceplate and have removed all my needles at one point. I recalibrated my odometer using 3 GPS's and reinstalled all the needles at full operating temperature so the oil pressure was dead center as was the temp. Makes it very easy to spot when something is out of spec. My oil pressure is now 2 full needle widths over the center mark where it used to be dead center.
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  #119  
Old 02-04-2012, 05:32 PM
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Well, it's back to the drawing board I guess. The good news is, it's not a lifter or an oil pump problem. The bad news is, it's somewhere in the timing assembly and it will likely require me to pull the entire face off the engine...again. What I thought sounded like lifter tap was actually chain slap.

I did my vacuum trick this morning and it came out spotless less some dirtyl oil. I also checked lifter length and lash and found everything within spec. I then checked compression and found every hole, (on the left side anyways), to be around 175psi.

I then pulled the rockers, lifters and spark plug out of the #2 cylinder and put the valve cover back on. I fired it up and sure enough, the tick was still there. The tick is coming from the timing chain assembly and I will have to do a bunch more research now.

I did pull the camshaft position sensor and checked its face for signs of impact from the cam sensor wheel and found a couple faint scratches but nothing major. I made a shim out of a plastic water bottle and shimmed the sensor but the engine wouldn't even start with the shim in place so these sensors are very sensitive to clearance.

Other than that I am back to square one; sad that it isn't resolved but happy to be one step closer anyways. Once again back to wishing I had stuck with OEM MOPAR parts.

I did remove the oil filler cap and observe the lower portion of the chain but I couldn't tell if the chain was bouncing or if it was the whole engine bouncing. When I had the valve cover off I did notice that the top portion of the chain was loose while the bottom was tight. The pivoting tensioner is on the bottom so that makes sense and as I turned the motor over, both sides were tight so it could just be the way the lifters center the cam when not under load. If something is out of round or off center then my noise would be from the chain slapping the guides.

Anyone know how thick the cams are? They are hollow so could I have warped the cam when I torqued down the timing gear? I am contemplating sacrificing one of my spare valve covers and cutting an inspection hole into it for viewing the chain assembly while running. I just can't bring myself to run the truck with the valve covers off and fling oil everywhere.

EDIT: My spare motor does not have this chain slack on rotation so me thinks my adjuster is out of stroke! This would explain why it ran nice and quiet for 800 or so miles...until the chain stretched and it ran out of adjustment. Spot me Jim, it looks like i'm going in...tomorrow.

Last edited by IN2H2O; 02-04-2012 at 05:48 PM.
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  #120  
Old 02-04-2012, 11:15 PM
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My conection is slow so I'm not going back to look but I thought you said that the tapping was coming from rhe area furthest from the oil pump? Anywho, I think I'd rather have to deal with a loose or worn tensioner than what we thought it might be. It sounds doable anyway, hope you find it.
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