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Hi Everyone,
I wanted to check in and ask about putting in a 180* thermostat. I have a stock 2010 1500 with the 5.7. I'll be putting magnaflow exhaust and a volant cai in next week. I live in FL and don't see really cold temps. Will I need to adjust anything after I put in the new t stat? Thanks in advance.*
Brian
 

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I still think people should consider the designed temperature operation issue in a given vehicle before just lowering the stat temp...especially when no programmer or chip is in place to coordinate the lower temp. As I've mentioned before, there are some drag racing and performance benefits for short term operation in some instances, but overall operation can suffer. I'll attach my response from another identical post about this issue. Hey, I love modding vehicles and motorcycles to get more power, overall driveability, and better efficiency. You just have to be aware that there can be unpleasant compromises sometimes.

Well, I guess I'll go a bit against the popularity flow of this thread and say that installing a cooler thermostat isn't necessarily the way to go for good, overall performance. When I say "overall" I mean using your truck as your daily driver and such where you want a balance of power, efficiency, and economy. I'm not saying that there is absolute proof that some kind of damage or problem will occur, but I'm am saying that it's probably not optimum for normal operation of the truck.

Now, if you tweak the computer or chip to correspond to the lower temp, then I think you may be getting somewhere. Like has already been pointed out, a cooler stat won't stop an overheating problem that already exists. The overheating should be addressed by some other issue...bigger fan, more fans, or fixing a mechanical problem causing the overheating.

I think we all know that the higher temps were designed to help with emissions, and most of us correlate that with a loss of power. While that can generally be true, I think we forget that while coolant temps had to go up for cleaner emissions, the manufacturers also learned how to maintain better performance and fuel economy while dealing with the heat. All of the engine components were better designed to deal with this heat so as to make it a non-issue as far as reliability is concerned. I think we also tend to think that heat is all bad. Economy and efficiency often rely on a given level of temperature to produce a balance of power and fuel mileage. Then there's issue of oil performance and other components in the engine that are designed to operate at a higher temp.

Now, I'm not saying that it's going to be the end of world by installing a cooler stat in your engine...it's not. But I do think that if you don't at least tweak the computer to match those lower temps, fuel economy may drop and the harmony of the design of some of the engine components will be out-of-whack with each other...maybe not a good thing. I could see where doing nothing but performance runs...like at a drag strip or such..."might" be improved by a cooler stat because the computer would be "fooled" into thinking the engine is not warmed up and more fuel is needed. But...during the warmup cycle there may be timing and other issues that the computer is influencing that may actually hurt performance. Until I see a true dyno comparison on our trucks actually designed to qualify this, I don't think anyone can say with any authority that a lower stat is even beneficial for performance. Seat-of-the-pants dynos don't count.

Regardless, I'm suspicious that in our daily, overall use of our trucks that a cooler stat may not achieve anything but lower fuel mileage. There's a lot of info available from sources here on the internet, hot rod magazines, and other automotive periodicals that talk about this. Just about any time I've seen it discussed for a daily driver street vehicle, the majority of the results suggested against a cooler stat overall and almost always suggested against it without a corresponding computer alteration via tuner or chip.

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TNC, what issues exactly are you worried about with the colder thermostats? There's also no way to alter the fuel enrichment temperature setting with regular tuners like diablo and superchips. A 180 tstat is usually fine. If you go lower than 180 then yes sometimes you will be stuck in a fuel enrichment area and it will decrease performance and fuel economy. I don't know that I've ever seen this happen though with any vehicle on a 180 tstat...
 

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sean, the issue I bring up is mainly how the computer operates the FI and other elements in the engine based on coolant temp. A cooler thermostat "can" cause more problems than any real, perceived, or short term performance benefit. I say "can" because probably only the engineers who designed the cooling system and computer will know at what point the computer will let the engine go out of warm-up mode. In warm-up mode there is more going on than just the extra fuel for the cold motor...at least in most cases. There is usually a timing influence and other elements being manipulated by the computer during warm-up. In some cases and at certain temps this can be a benefit...or...it can be a negative. In some vehicles the fly-by-wire accelerator pedal isn't even providing all of the potential operation of the throttle body when the engine is cold, or it's supplied at a slower rate. Believe it or not there can be several elements being controlled by the computer during warmup, and some of them can limit performance. And there are some engines that have stairstep profiles in the temp levels that change the way the computer controls those elements as temps rise. It's possible that at 180 degrees, there are few if any negative elements in the engine operation. Like I say, I don't qualify this specifically to our hemi truck engine, but does anyone definitively know this? And would the cooler stat affect those who have to undergo an emissions sniff test?

I mention a programmer or chip control, because this was a very common approach in the 80's and 90's on computer controlled engines with cooler than stock stats. In some cases all the chip did was alter timing and scale the computer to think that 180 degrees was 195 degrees. This maintained fuel economy to some degree. I had an '89 full-size Jimmy with a 350 and a stock 195 degree stat. I installed a 180 stat. The engine seemed to run fine, but fuel ecnonomy suffered and even the exhaust odor was extremely strong and gassy. I got a Hypertech chip for this purpose, and the fuel mileage went back up and the fuel rich odor disappeared. Now granted, this is a dumber OBD-I system, but in reality our more sophisticated OBD-II system can be even more affected by coolant temps as it controls more functions in the engine. You mention that a programmer doesn't take coolant temp into account, and I admit that surprises me a bit. Most all the issues and potential concerns I mention can be addressed by "fooling" the computer into thinking you have achieved full warmup at 180 degrees. I even wonder how/if MDS might be affected. If our hemi's are allegedly so sensitive to the oil viscosity for MDS operation, is a 20+ degree drop in normal operating temp affecting MDS operation by possibly affecting viscosity?

These are just things to think about when going to a cooler stat. You might not notice a bit of difference in driveability or performance, but it would really take intensive dyno tests and such to really know if there is any performance benefit. I get the impression that engineers have gotten a much better handle on dealing with the necessary higher coolant temps and how they work with power and fuel efficiency. Engine components and materials have changed a great deal also to deal with it.

There are many articles and descriptions about this out there. Here's a link to one. While it's in reference to a Mazda, the principle is almost always the same for a street driven vehicle. And of course, there are always exceptions.

http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp_1001_colder_thermostat_increase_power/index.html
 

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I would have to agree with TNC. There are a lot of things going on in the background that the computer is doing and changing that we would never know about or maybe even think about. Somethings I would MOD and somethings I wouldn't.
 

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You obviously have a computer, it's been dyno proven a million x fold....google it! The only reason for the high temps is to burn off emissions unfortunately at a high cost of performance, longevity, and fuel milage. Not only has it been dyno proven since year one , it' dyno proven 100 x fold on all gen 111 hemi vehicles. bds0f, do your engine a favor and install a 180 tstat worry free, you' be more than happy that you did!
 

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where i can see both sides and have heard it before, I know of at least 30 people just on this forum that run it in their trucks and don't see anything bad happen. so for me dyno or not it has been proven based on that alone. but to each his own!
 

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I ran mine for over a year before I installed my tuner so you can make that 31. And cooler temps do not affect the air/fuel mixture or timing, it is the exact opposite. Extreme over heating will and that's where your sensors come into play. The info from the sensors will cause the pcm to advance the timing to help cool the engine down. Some of you who have experienced extreme over heating may have noticed pinging and knocking when this occurs.
 

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I ran mine for over a year before I installed my tuner so you can make that 31. And cooler temps do not affect the air/fuel mixture or timing, it is the exact opposite. Extreme over heating will and that's where your sensors come into play. The info from the sensors will cause the pcm to advance the timing to help cool the engine down. Some of you who have experienced extreme over heating may have noticed pinging and knocking when this occurs.
Lower thermostat ratings are not the solution for extreme overheating. If one is having overheating they need to fix the cause for that...clogged radiator, fans not operating, etc...or...need bigger radiator, more/bigger fans, etc. Most go to a cooler stat in hopes of improving performance, but even that's somewhat debateable as a 100% guarantee for all vehicles.

I'm not sure why you seemed to get a little wound up by me even bringing it up for discussion. I thought this was a discussion forum. Having a differing opinon or take on this stat issue is not an illogical point for discussion. You mention that it's all over the internet. Well, I assume you also have a computer, and I think you'll find two arguments to the discussion. And in fact I think you'll find that the most detailed discussions about the issue point out more potential negative effects...and not necessarily engine damage. I've researched a ton of these discussions, and yes there are many, many folks who've gone to a 180 stat. That alone doesn't indicate a great amount of success and positive results just because engines didn't blow up. I pointed out more than once in my two posts about this that I'm not one who believes that there will be some dire consequences as a result of a 180 stat. What I did see in many of those posts was a slight drop in fuel economy to no gain at all. There was an occasional claim of higher mpg and even the "feel" of an increase in performance. Is that qualified or not? Just because either side of the issue is on the internet with claims from both camps doesn't necessarily make it so. To say it shouldn't be up for discussion and casting aspersions on anyone who brings it up by making smart-A remarks might be a little narrow minded.
 

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Dude...I didn't say anything about a lower temp tstat being a fix for any type of over heating, especially extreme over heating, lol! Second, the man who started this thread didn't ask for any oppinions about the pros and cons of installing one. He asked if he had to make any adjustments to compensate for the different temps. It's evident that his mind was already made up about installing one. But unlike every engine builder in the country and perfomance shops that recommend and sell it, you know better. In the mean time good luck trying to get any performance gains with your current heat soaked tstat, lol!
 

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TNC, your concerns are definitely valid, but 180deg is in the safe zone almost every time. I'll also agree with radioflyer that it's been dyno'd a lot on many vehicles and you can even search on google and find results. Don't worry though about radioflyer, he always stirs it up, I haven't seen him post here in awhile, thought he left...
 

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TNC, your concerns are definitely valid, but 180deg is in the safe zone almost every time. I'll also agree with radioflyer that it's been dyno'd a lot on many vehicles and you can even search on google and find results. Don't worry though about radioflyer, he always stirs it up, I haven't seen him post here in awhile, thought he left...
LOL!...no, I just chalked it up to his age. You know when people approach 60 they get cranky and difficult. Excuse me a moment while I go back and change my profile...LOL!

On the dyno results, that was one of the things I was looking for but haven't found yet...at least as it applies directly to our trucks. I've already had to upgrade my glasses prescription from reading so much on it at this point.:D I've spent a good deal of time on some other enthusiast forums on motorcycles, vehicles, and even an MTB forum. I usually save a link for some of the more interesting discussion topics that come up, and I was hoping maybe he had one. Man, you do a search for "colder thermostat", "benefit of colder thermostat", and similar text and you get a ton of stuff to sift through. I just hadn't run across the right one yet.

Like I said earlier, I don't think anything bad is going to happen in our case, just not sure anything good will either. Now, let me go find that dead horse...LOL! Thanks for the info, Sean.
 

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LOL

The internet has a great amount of useful information, the problem is that the useful information only makes up about 1% of the total lol.
 

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TNC, your concerns are definitely valid, but 180deg is in the safe zone almost every time. I'll also agree with radioflyer that it's been dyno'd a lot on many vehicles and you can even search on google and find results. Don't worry though about radioflyer, he always stirs it up, I haven't seen him post here in awhile, thought he left...
With all due respect to both of you, I was disputing his facts and reasoning for posting negative comments about a simple mod such as a tstat.
 
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