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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I really can't believe those rat bastard engineers put the thing inside the tank. Really grinds my gears when I can't easily replace fuel filters.

So right now what I'm looking at is building an aftermarket HP gasoline filter system to throw inline after the pump so I can swap my fuel filters like I've always done and just in case as a protective measure should the pump blow as I fully expect it to some day. Just curious if anyone else has done this to the Hemi Gasoline, I know it's common on the diesel side to throw in an in-line filter. Just haven't seen anything in the Gas side.

The other thing I'm going to be doing as I've racked up about 9,600 miles on my Ram since late Mar when it had 14 is cleanable filters. Most likely going with K&N just curious if anyone's had any issues with ram specific not that I'm expecting to be, and curious about this new "Bag" pre-filter they've got now on their site with no reviews.

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?prod=RF-1020DK
Unsure how I feel about it, in theory it seems as if it's logical, but field application kind of seems out of place unless you plan on mudding/offroading/or driving with the hood off.
 

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The pre-filters have been around a while. The one you linked to is for really fine particles. Something you would need if you were driving where you had really fine dust or if it was exposed to lots of water. Not something you need on a street driven truck unless you spend a lot of time on dusty gravel roads. Then it would help you not have to clean the filter as often.

For the fuel filter I'm pretty sure it's after the pump so all you would be doing is re-filtering the fuel. I know it sucks that it's in the tank and non serviceable but when you think about it the sock on the pump catches most of the crap from your tank and fuel and it's non serviceable without dropping the tank. The fuel filter after the pump catches the really fine stuff. I know it would be nice to be able to change it but I think adding another one isn't going to do much other than giving you the satisfaction of changing a filter.
 

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K&N's let in way too much dirt for me even on the street. I don't think the wear is worth the 5 hp gain. If they worked in the first place as a true filter, they wouldn't need a pre-filter, lol.

Fuel filter would help increase injector life and possibly mileage but might be a leak path. Fram has one with a 90° bracket that bolts to the frame rail but not sure how good their filters are.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The pre-filters have been around a while. The one you linked to is for really fine particles. Something you would need if you were driving where you had really fine dust or if it was exposed to lots of water. Not something you need on a street driven truck unless you spend a lot of time on dusty gravel roads. Then it would help you not have to clean the filter as often.

For the fuel filter I'm pretty sure it's after the pump so all you would be doing is re-filtering the fuel. I know it sucks that it's in the tank and non serviceable but when you think about it the sock on the pump catches most of the crap from your tank and fuel and it's non serviceable without dropping the tank. The fuel filter after the pump catches the really fine stuff. I know it would be nice to be able to change it but I think adding another one isn't going to do much other than giving you the satisfaction of changing a filter.
Yeah, I wasn't positive on the precise placement of the fuel filter I had just assumed it would be a suction filter as opposed to a HP - Outlet which is good to hear. As far as fuel filters go I'm not an automotive engineer.

As far as the K&N filter, I just hadn't seen the bag before or heard about it so I didn't know any field experience of it. Only the theory behind it I picked up from their description.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
K&N's let in way too much dirt for me even on the street. I don't think the wear is worth the 5 hp gain. If they worked in the first place as a true filter, they wouldn't need a pre-filter, lol.

Fuel filter would help increase injector life and possibly mileage but might be a leak path. Fram has one with a 90° bracket that bolts to the frame rail but not sure how good their filters are.
K&N lets in shit if you don't keep it oiled which is certainly a problem, but on previous vehicles I've been religious about about changing the air filter out every 10,000 miles so I wouldn't expect to have an issue so long as I kept it clean and oiled every 10,000 which would be cheaper than $10 every two to three months.

That's also why I brought up the bag, if it's pre-filtering and people have used it with success and avail then my 10,000 maintenance on the filter would be more than adequate for engine protection.
 

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K&N lets in shit if you don't keep it oiled which is certainly a problem, but on previous vehicles I've been religious about about changing the air filter out every 10,000 miles so I wouldn't expect to have an issue so long as I kept it clean and oiled every 10,000 which would be cheaper than $10 every two to three months.

That's also why I brought up the bag, if it's pre-filtering and people have used it with success and avail then my 10,000 maintenance on the filter would be more than adequate for engine protection.
The oil doesn't trap dirt that gets in between the media's opening. It only collects dirt if it hits the cotton. A paper filter is good for over a year depending on how anal you are. 15k miles is not out of the question. Some are restrictive (AC Delco) in comparison with a Mopar filter but if you live on a rural road or in other foul conditions, a K&N is a definite problem. I tossed the one in our 4Runner and put a paper one back in, I can't really tell a difference. It was a drop in.

 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The oil doesn't trap dirt that gets in between the media's opening. It only collects dirt if it hits the cotton. A paper filter is good for over a year depending on how anal you are. 15k miles is not out of the question. Some are restrictive (AC Delco) in comparison with a Mopar filter but if you live on a rural road or in other foul conditions, a K&N is a definite problem. I tossed the one in our 4Runner and put a paper one back in, I can't really tell a difference. It was a drop in.

I would agree Air filters are good for up to a year/15,000 miles.

I've done 9,800 in two months. :att:
Which is why I'm looking at re-usable filter elements.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yeah, those monthly trips to China and back can be hard on a truck...damn....in only 2 months?
I travel for work, anything under 8 hours drive time(500 miles one way) I usually drive. I also did a round trip from NKY to Central MA for funerals shortly after I purchased the truck. There were a couple weeks I was averaging 250mi a day.

There's a reason I got the extended 100k 7 year warrantee. Lol. :wow:

I did just purchase a drop in K&N filter to go into the stock housing. The way I see it so long as I clean/oil it every 10k I don't have anything to worry about and it's a lot cheaper than picking up a new filter every two months.

Now I've just got to figure out what I want to do with the fuel filter set up and get the type of oil filter magnet I want... Hmmm.
 

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Just make sure when you clean and oil your filter you clean it so the filter is white then after it dries completely only oil it enough to make it red again. Too much oil cause other problems and actually filters worse. A good idea for making sure it completely dries after cleaning is to keep a paper filter and install it for a day while the K&N dries and allows the oil to soak in.

Oil filter magnets don't do anything. If you're collecting metal particles it's too late. Just invest in a quality filter, not fram, and quality oil and change it regularly.

I still don't see what you'd accomplish adding an additional fuel filter. One thing I could see is Chrysler voiding your warranty for an unauthorized modification. And it will make the fuel pump work harder pushing through a second filter. Chrysler stopped having an external filter in 94 so I'd hope that they would've changed if they were having problems with injectors failing due to lack of filtering. Or the aftermarket would've come up with a solution.
 

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I agree with some of the other posts in this thread. You're trying to solve problems that don't exist and in the process will probably cause new problems. Leave it alone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Just make sure when you clean and oil your filter you clean it so the filter is white then after it dries completely only oil it enough to make it red again. Too much oil cause other problems and actually filters worse. A good idea for making sure it completely dries after cleaning is to keep a paper filter and install it for a day while the K&N dries and allows the oil to soak in.

Oil filter magnets don't do anything. If you're collecting metal particles it's too late. Just invest in a quality filter, not fram, and quality oil and change it regularly.

I still don't see what you'd accomplish adding an additional fuel filter. One thing I could see is Chrysler voiding your warranty for an unauthorized modification. And it will make the fuel pump work harder pushing through a second filter. Chrysler stopped having an external filter in 94 so I'd hope that they would've changed if they were having problems with injectors failing due to lack of filtering. Or the aftermarket would've come up with a solution.
I wouldnt dare alter the fuel system until it was out of warranty. It's just something I've been thinking about because I really don't like dropping the tank to change a filter.

Thanks for the tip on the K&N. I'll definitely take that advice to use.

As far as magnets for the oil filter. I disagree personally. Wear items consistently degrade, it's why they're "wear items". How much so is based off of maintenance, and liberal maintenance of the oil system is critical for maximizing life. However Magnets come in handy for holding the minute amounts of metal wear that is released through normal operation. The best example I remember would be the allison transmissions in the school bus' I used to repair. The external filter had a magnet in it to catch the metal wear from the trans running and prevent it from getting into the filter. The service on them was far less often than oil changes but the logic behind it stands. If you can catch the crud and prevent it from entering the filter it may not be a lot of metal 'dust' on it per 5,000 mile oil changes, but it's certainly nothing that could hurt the system. When I was doing the trans services the vehicles that had proper maintenance only had a thin gray film of ATF/metal dust on it as opposed to the ones that had missed maintenance and were absolutely packed to the brim with nasty shit.
 

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Transmissions are completely different. The friction material had metal in it that will stick to a magnet. In an engine the bearings have non magnetic material on them. I agree with a magnet in a tranny pan they catch all kinds of crap. If you're finding metal shavings on a magnet in an engine that means something is making metal to metal contact and that's bad. And at that point it's too late.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Transmissions are completely different. The friction material had metal in it that will stick to a magnet. In an engine the bearings have non magnetic material on them. I agree with a magnet in a tranny pan they catch all kinds of crap. If you're finding metal shavings on a magnet in an engine that means something is making metal to metal contact and that's bad. And at that point it's too late.
Fair enough. I always thought the rings would have been magnetic and leave a minute amount of residue. While we're arguing :LOL: What do you know about the design on Oil Catch Cans? (( http://www.custombilletstore.com/product_p/20014.htm))

It talks about filtering the oil out but I'm unsure if they're actually using a filter or just letting the oil drop into the bottom of it to prevent it from re-entry.
 

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What a catch can does is prevent oil from building up in the bottom of the intake. Due to the design of the intake the air comes up and over into the intake ports in the head. The PCV always brings some amount oil oil into the intake and normally that isn't a problem as it would just get burned in the combustion chamber. But because the air had to travel up before it goes down into the head the oil comes out of suspension and gravity pulls it down to the bottom. It will create a big gummy mess if left too long. What a catch can does is add a really coarse filter to the PCV line and catch the oil that is suspended in the air allowing only air and vapours back into the intake to be burned. It's a really good idea but doesn't filter the oil in the engine just what is going into the intake. You just empty it periodically. My last Ram had one and in 6 months I think I had about a 1/4 of a quart of oil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
What a catch can does is prevent oil from building up in the bottom of the intake. Due to the design of the intake the air comes up and over into the intake ports in the head. The PCV always brings some amount oil oil into the intake and normally that isn't a problem as it would just get burned in the combustion chamber. But because the air had to travel up before it goes down into the head the oil comes out of suspension and gravity pulls it down to the bottom. It will create a big gummy mess if left too long. What a catch can does is add a really coarse filter to the PCV line and catch the oil that is suspended in the air allowing only air and vapours back into the intake to be burned. It's a really good idea but doesn't filter the oil in the engine just what is going into the intake. You just empty it periodically. My last Ram had one and in 6 months I think I had about a 1/4 of a quart of oil.
Alright cool thanks, I wasn't sure how they were filtering the oil out of the intake with it as to whether it was a filter like you described or a godawful disposable like I've seen on a couple CAT's. I never did quite figure out what the point of that filter was, I never cared enough to trace the lines to see where they all went, But I did drain quarts of oil out of the ****ing things because no one ever wanted to do them...
 

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The gas filter has to be in the tank because that's where the fuel pump is, and the filter has to be ahead of the pump in order to protect it. Adding another filter after the pump/filter unit and outside the tank is rather pointless, I'd think. EFI engine standards have settled upon the fuel pump and gas gauge sending unit being a single in-tank unit with the filter necessarily being in there too at the intake, and there you have it. It's the way it is these days.

I don't know why people keep buying K&N air filters. When compared to other options the technical performance of a K&N is deficient in any number of tests easily found online.
In my memory K&N made air filters for show cars, and they were pretty looking chromed expanded metal cases with cotton gauze behind that was wetted down with pretty purple oil. You could get all shapes and they looked really cool along with all the polished aluminum valve covers and braided steel lines and hoses, and for functionality they didn't really need to do much more than keep the odd blowing dandelions out of the engine while the car is being driven from its trailer to the grassy outdoor car show grounds.
But people started buying K&N's to put on vehicles they actually drove, expecting them to actually filter air! What to do? The company was married inextricably to their oiled cotton gauze signature appearance, but when tasked in real world dirty dusty operating conditions they didn't work well enough, and engines were being damaged. What to do?
AHA! said the engineers. We'll make a 'pre-filter' to go over our existing air filter so that between the two of them they will actually filter the air!
Except that now with this new sock pulled on over top, the free flowing attribute of the cotton gauze was rendered no better than the paper filters that they replaced, and the signature chromed stretch metal and purple gauze business was now invisible, and moreover the combined sock/gauze confection still lagged behind other air filters in technical performance. To top it off, in the modern age of EFI engines and their myriad sensors, the oiled gauze of a K&N tends to foul mass O2 sensors.

But the marketing scheme worked, because people are still buying the things, most likely based upon the momentum of the brand. Who are we to argue with marketing success?

This description isn't likely to make K&N owners very happy, sorry. It's just my take on it. :D
 

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I don't really see a benefit to an added fuel filter on a gas truck. In fact I didn't realize they were really something that people replace. I may drop my tank and clean it out in another 150,000 miles or so, but I'm not really concerned with the fuel filter.

As for the air filter I checked mine at 10k and 20k and it was pretty clean. I didn't change it until 30k (as the manual states) and it was pretty dirty but a swab of the TB side of the intake revealed that no appreciable crap had got through. I do it every 10k now regardless.
 
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