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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Maybe this was already discussed, but what does everyone know about this? I've tried to google it, specifically for the Ram, but haven't found much of anything. My guy at the dealership tells me its a real thing. Punch it in the beginning, adjusts to your driving, and give you more torque at lower gears.

If you drive hard in the beginning,then drive soft for 1000kms, will it adjust back?:4-dontknow:
 

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It depends on the transmission model that you have. Basically, there are two types of adaptation: "learning" of clutch volumes or other parameters to maximize shift QUALITY (how smooth the shifts are), and adaptation to driving style, which adjusts the shift PATTERN (speeds at which the trans shifts).

Most all transmissions today will "learn" various clutch adaptives in order to improve or maintain shift quality. Basically, the TCM monitors the shifts, and if it detects a poor shift, it adjusts the parameters it uses for that shift (clutch fill time, filling pressure, etc.) to try to achieve a smoother shift. Although this "learning" is not primarily intended to adjust for "driving style," that becomes a natural consequence. For example, if you drive with a "heavy foot" (high torque) most of the time, then the trans will "learn" to give you the smoothest shifts at high torque levels. Likewise, if you're a more conservative driver, the trans will "learn" for maximum shift quality at lower torques and speeds. It tries to "learn" to give you the best shift quality (period), but obviously that best shift quality will be at whatever condition you normally drive in.

Adaption of shift PATTERN for driving style occurs in some transmissions (such as the 8-speed) but not in others (such as the 6-speed). In this type of adaptation (when present), the TCM will alter the shift schedule based on driver inputs (such as throttle pattern, use of manual downshifts, etc.).

Note that the specific shift point normally changes (in all transmission models) based on throttle / torque level, and on certain features (such as Tow/Haul mode) or operating conditions (such as temperature level).
 

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Yes, what he said. I don't have any experience with my truck but I do with my Challenger. The adaptives on my Challenger are annoying. It shifts early and too soon in my opinion. I have a tuner and can reset it, but over time it ends up back where it was. In theory if I drove the heck out it after a reset, it would be OK but it never works out that way for me.

My wife has a 300C and its much better in terms of the adaptives.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So let's say i drive it hard in the beginning, to set the tranny for more torque, for the first 800kms. Then I go easy while accelerating, because I wanna get the fuel mileage. Does the tranny then reset to less torque at beginning? I have over 3000 KMS on it now, is it still possible to set it to a higher performance side?
 

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So let's say i drive it hard in the beginning, to set the tranny for more torque, for the first 800kms. Then I go easy while accelerating, because I wanna get the fuel mileage. Does the tranny then reset to less torque at beginning? I have over 3000 KMS on it now, is it still possible to set it to a higher performance side?
You really don't need to try to deliberately "learn" it one way or another. The shift parameters will always be adjusted depending on the torque level at that moment. But the trans will probably be "best" at shifting smoothly under the conditions you normally drive.

For example, if you live in northern Canada and drive on snow and ice all the time, you will become very skilled at driving on slippery roads. Someone from Florida, on the other hand, may obviously not be as good at driving on snow, because they don't have as much practice at it. In the same way, if someone always drives with a light foot, their trans may not be as "good" at shifting smoothly when they suddenly have to step on it, simply because the trans hasn't had much time to "learn" at heavy throttle. But just like the guy from Florida will TRY to drive more cautiously on snow (even though he may not be very good at it!), the trans will still adjust (as best it can) for heavier-torque driving, even if it hasn't "learned" how to do that perfectly yet.

As far as adaptive changes to the shift PATTERN go, I don't know all the details, but basically these changes are made on the fly as you drive; they are not slow adjustments over hundreds of miles. If, for example, you suddenly start making a series of manual downshifts, the trans (if it has adaptive shift patterns) will very quickly adjust the shift schedule based on your driving at that moment.
 

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It depends on the transmission model that you have. Basically, there are two types of adaptation: "learning" of clutch volumes or other parameters to maximize shift QUALITY (how smooth the shifts are), and adaptation to driving style, which adjusts the shift PATTERN (speeds at which the trans shifts).

Most all transmissions today will "learn" various clutch adaptives in order to improve or maintain shift quality. Basically, the TCM monitors the shifts, and if it detects a poor shift, it adjusts the parameters it uses for that shift (clutch fill time, filling pressure, etc.) to try to achieve a smoother shift. Although this "learning" is not primarily intended to adjust for "driving style," that becomes a natural consequence. For example, if you drive with a "heavy foot" (high torque) most of the time, then the trans will "learn" to give you the smoothest shifts at high torque levels. Likewise, if you're a more conservative driver, the trans will "learn" for maximum shift quality at lower torques and speeds. It tries to "learn" to give you the best shift quality (period), but obviously that best shift quality will be at whatever condition you normally drive in.

Adaption of shift PATTERN for driving style occurs in some transmissions (such as the 8-speed) but not in others (such as the 6-speed). In this type of adaptation (when present), the TCM will alter the shift schedule based on driver inputs (such as throttle pattern, use of manual downshifts, etc.).

Note that the specific shift point normally changes (in all transmission models) based on throttle / torque level, and on certain features (such as Tow/Haul mode) or operating conditions (such as temperature level).
Hi there, i’m sorry for reviving this thread, but i really need this question of mine answered.

I’ve spent the past year researching this transmission, and i think i know it fairly well, but i need help with a few things, and i don’t know if it’s normal or not.

Firstly, my truck is equipped with the 65RFE 6 Speed Auto, and is paired to the 4.7L V8. It’s also a 2013.

Okay so, here’s the questions. My truck shifts EXTREMELY soft, and it takes sometimes seconds for it to complete a 2-4 shift, and occasionally it’s the same with the 4-5 and with 5-6 is incredibly soft as well. I’ve also noticed that from 1-2 at WOT the truck seems to shift overly soft too, and there’s also a loud click when it goes into 4th, but after that, it doesn’t click when it goes into any other gears but 4th. I also feel a major hesitation when speeding up most of the time, and occasionally when the truck goes into 4th it drags back majorly for around a second and then returns to speeding up.

Now, for the kicker. This is the second transmission i’ve put into this truck, i replaced the old one for doing the exact same thing thinking something mechanically was wrong with it. But, i guess not.

The transmission back in the summer and just a few weeks ago would overheat at idle too, both transmissions did this. At 84°F ambient temp while in idle in drive the trans reached 204, the new one hasn’t overheated that badly, but i’ve noticed it climb up pretty high too. Usually revving the engine would drop trans temps by around 30-50 degrees, and if it was idling in park, putting it in drive would make it drop by around 40. I’ve also noticed some irregularities with the temp readings, like it jumping to 160 on occasion and then plummeting back down to 140. Both transmissions did this as well.

The radiator fins are clean and both fans work.

I have no codes, i check the trans fluid every day and it’s always at the correct level (middle of HOT hatch marks at 150) I know i’m supposed to check it at 170, but i can’t get the truck up that high.

Forgot to mention, doing a quicklearn gives me extremely strange results. When asked to shift into OD for the quicklearn procedure to take place the engine RPMs shoot up to 1500, and if you put it into Drive it makes a gnarly sound, which i’m not going to do again.
 

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You really don't need to try to deliberately "learn" it one way or another. The shift parameters will always be adjusted depending on the torque level at that moment. But the trans will probably be "best" at shifting smoothly under the conditions you normally drive.

For example, if you live in northern Canada and drive on snow and ice all the time, you will become very skilled at driving on slippery roads. Someone from Florida, on the other hand, may obviously not be as good at driving on snow, because they don't have as much practice at it. In the same way, if someone always drives with a light foot, their trans may not be as "good" at shifting smoothly when they suddenly have to step on it, simply because the trans hasn't had much time to "learn" at heavy throttle. But just like the guy from Florida will TRY to drive more cautiously on snow (even though he may not be very good at it!), the trans will still adjust (as best it can) for heavier-torque driving, even if it hasn't "learned" how to do that perfectly yet.

As far as adaptive changes to the shift PATTERN go, I don't know all the details, but basically these changes are made on the fly as you drive; they are not slow adjustments over hundreds of miles. If, for example, you suddenly start making a series of manual downshifts, the trans (if it has adaptive shift patterns) will very quickly adjust the shift schedule based on your driving at that moment.
Sorry, i also forgot to add a detail.

While the trans is cold, which is at around 60-70°F with the engine cranking in Park, the fluid is VERY foamy. I got a clear hand pump and started to take some fluid out and there were so many air bubbles that the fluid was a pastel pink until the bubbles popped and were filled with trans fluid. I’ve noticed that it’s also slightly foamy heated up in Park as well.

(I was taking some out to see if the dipstick was registering correctly, and that the fluid was that foamy, i put it all back in after.)

Also, something strange that i can’t really explain, is that when measuring the fluid cold with the dipstick that the fluid registers almost like this on this dipstick: |_. One side has fluid on it but goes straight up till around the 2nd cold hatch mark. Almost makes me think that the fluid is splashing in the pan and hittting it like that. This is at cold idle and only happens occasionally.

I forgot to add (again lol) that i dropped the pan before installing the new transmission to make sure the seller installed everything right, and the filters were fine and they weren’t OEM mopar filters but the main sump had the purple valve on top to prevent the filter from splitting. The filter was also seated all the way. The canister filter was tightened down properly.
 

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Yes, the trans will heat up if you have it idling in Drive. That's because of the heat being generated in the converter. In Drive, the input shaft is stopped (assuming the truck is stopped), while the impeller in the converter is spinning at engine RPM. Heat generated in the converter is related to torque level and slip speed. Although the torque at idle is low, the slip speed equals the engine RPM (maybe 900 RPM), so you do generate heat, and at idle dead stopped you get no significant cooling (until the temp gets high enough to kick the fan on), so yes, the trans will heat up. In Park (or Neutral) the slip level will be much less, so the trans will not heat up as much. I would avoid long idle times in gear. Put it in Park instead.

Foamy fluid is usually due to being overfilled, or having a bad (misinstalled, loose) filter, but it sounds like neither of those is the case with you. So I'm not sure what to tell you on that front.

Fluid level that is different on either side of the dipstick is usually due to fluid inside the fill tube that is getting smeared on the stick (on one side). Usually this happens when you add some fluid and then immediately check the level (while the fluid has not yet run down off the inside of the tube, which takes a couple minutes). In your case, my guess is that the fluid level in the tube is high when the truck is shut off (which is normal), and then you're checking it right after startup, so again there is still some fluid clinging to the inside of the tube, which gets smeared on one side of the stick. I would just wait a couple minutes after startup to check the level.

As for the extremely soft shifts and the "drag" during some shifts, I'd think this is due to the PCM, and how it's commanding the shifts. For one thing, engine torque is cut back momentarily during shifts, so I suspect the "drag" you're feeling is just that reduced engine torque (that disappears once the PCM commands full torque again). Also, some shift events can be pretty involved: first the Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) goes from full lockup to partial lockup (where you will see engine RPM rise slightly), then the actual shift occurs (and engine RPM drops), then the TCC re-engages full lockup (so engine RPM drops a bit more). So there are actually three separate events in succession, which can take a second or two (or three). Have you compared your truck to a similar one? You might try running with a scan tool that displays TCC state, current gear, and target gear. Then you could see the whole sequence of what is occurring. Target gear changes (for example, from 3 to 4) at the start of the shift, and current gear changes at the end of the shift.

When running a quicklearn, the engine speed is supposed to increase (to about 1500 RPM), and once you shift into Drive, the various clutches will be applied in succession, so you should feel a series of bumps. But normally the only noise you get is thuds as the clutches apply.
 

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Yes, the trans will heat up if you have it idling in Drive. That's because of the heat being generated in the converter. In Drive, the input shaft is stopped (assuming the truck is stopped), while the impeller in the converter is spinning at engine RPM. Heat generated in the converter is related to torque level and slip speed. Although the torque at idle is low, the slip speed equals the engine RPM (maybe 900 RPM), so you do generate heat, and at idle dead stopped you get no significant cooling (until the temp gets high enough to kick the fan on), so yes, the trans will heat up. In Park (or Neutral) the slip level will be much less, so the trans will not heat up as much. I would avoid long idle times in gear. Put it in Park instead.

Foamy fluid is usually due to being overfilled, or having a bad (misinstalled, loose) filter, but it sounds like neither of those is the case with you. So I'm not sure what to tell you on that front.

Fluid level that is different on either side of the dipstick is usually due to fluid inside the fill tube that is getting smeared on the stick (on one side). Usually this happens when you add some fluid and then immediately check the level (while the fluid has not yet run down off the inside of the tube, which takes a couple minutes). In your case, my guess is that the fluid level in the tube is high when the truck is shut off (which is normal), and then you're checking it right after startup, so again there is still some fluid clinging to the inside of the tube, which gets smeared on one side of the stick. I would just wait a couple minutes after startup to check the level.

As for the extremely soft shifts and the "drag" during some shifts, I'd think this is due to the PCM, and how it's commanding the shifts. For one thing, engine torque is cut back momentarily during shifts, so I suspect the "drag" you're feeling is just that reduced engine torque (that disappears once the PCM commands full torque again). Also, some shift events can be pretty involved: first the Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) goes from full lockup to partial lockup (where you will see engine RPM rise slightly), then the actual shift occurs (and engine RPM drops), then the TCC re-engages full lockup (so engine RPM drops a bit more). So there are actually three separate events in succession, which can take a second or two (or three). Have you compared your truck to a similar one? You might try running with a scan tool that displays TCC state, current gear, and target gear. Then you could see the whole sequence of what is occurring. Target gear changes (for example, from 3 to 4) at the start of the shift, and current gear changes at the end of the shift.

When running a quicklearn, the engine speed is supposed to increase (to about 1500 RPM), and once you shift into Drive, the various clutches will be applied in succession, so you should feel a series of bumps. But normally the only noise you get is thuds as the clutches apply.
I see what you’re saying, and no, i haven’t ran anything aside from looking at what AlfaOBD sends through the scan tool, and that aligns with what you’re saying.

Regarding the Quicklearn, it runs up to 1500 and once put in drive it whines like a SOB, like a dying cat in a way. Is this normal?

And yes, i learned about the TCC flares from reading up on your threads for the past year, and my truck does exhibit that from 4-5, and 5-6. The truck also unlocks the torque converter completely from a 6-5 downshift, and then re-locks it around 1-2 seconds later.

It’s helpful that you mentioned this regarding the dragging and stuff of that nature as i thought that this trans was on its way out, so i thank you for that. I’m not sure what’s causing the foamy fluid, but i’ll check it out eventually. I was just incredibly worried that i’d have to go through replacement again.

Could this cause long term excessive damage to the transmission, even though there’s nothing i can really do about it? The temps in drive at operating temp at around 50°F ambient outside temp is 110-125. I haven’t seen it higher.

Last thing, i had the plugs changed around 10K miles ago and i’m not sure the shop gapped the plugs right. I have another issue where the climbing RPMs are kinda uneven, as though it jumps probably around 50RPM so on and so fourth until it unlocks the converter and shifts into whatever gear after. Would this be the cause of this?
 

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Yes, the trans will heat up if you have it idling in Drive. That's because of the heat being generated in the converter. In Drive, the input shaft is stopped (assuming the truck is stopped), while the impeller in the converter is spinning at engine RPM. Heat generated in the converter is related to torque level and slip speed. Although the torque at idle is low, the slip speed equals the engine RPM (maybe 900 RPM), so you do generate heat, and at idle dead stopped you get no significant cooling (until the temp gets high enough to kick the fan on), so yes, the trans will heat up. In Park (or Neutral) the slip level will be much less, so the trans will not heat up as much. I would avoid long idle times in gear. Put it in Park instead.

Foamy fluid is usually due to being overfilled, or having a bad (misinstalled, loose) filter, but it sounds like neither of those is the case with you. So I'm not sure what to tell you on that front.

Fluid level that is different on either side of the dipstick is usually due to fluid inside the fill tube that is getting smeared on the stick (on one side). Usually this happens when you add some fluid and then immediately check the level (while the fluid has not yet run down off the inside of the tube, which takes a couple minutes). In your case, my guess is that the fluid level in the tube is high when the truck is shut off (which is normal), and then you're checking it right after startup, so again there is still some fluid clinging to the inside of the tube, which gets smeared on one side of the stick. I would just wait a couple minutes after startup to check the level.

As for the extremely soft shifts and the "drag" during some shifts, I'd think this is due to the PCM, and how it's commanding the shifts. For one thing, engine torque is cut back momentarily during shifts, so I suspect the "drag" you're feeling is just that reduced engine torque (that disappears once the PCM commands full torque again). Also, some shift events can be pretty involved: first the Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) goes from full lockup to partial lockup (where you will see engine RPM rise slightly), then the actual shift occurs (and engine RPM drops), then the TCC re-engages full lockup (so engine RPM drops a bit more). So there are actually three separate events in succession, which can take a second or two (or three). Have you compared your truck to a similar one? You might try running with a scan tool that displays TCC state, current gear, and target gear. Then you could see the whole sequence of what is occurring. Target gear changes (for example, from 3 to 4) at the start of the shift, and current gear changes at the end of the shift.

When running a quicklearn, the engine speed is supposed to increase (to about 1500 RPM), and once you shift into Drive, the various clutches will be applied in succession, so you should feel a series of bumps. But normally the only noise you get is thuds as the clutches apply.
I forgot to add this, i’m not sure if the fluid reading i’m getting is accurate. There’s no real places that are flat around me, i can just get it to “kinda flat”. It’s either higher on one side or the other, or the nose is pointing up or down slightly. I know this could have an effect on fluid level but i don’t know how to check it accurately other than doing it this way.
 

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A "dying cat" screech during a quicklearn is definitely NOT normal, but I have no idea what might cause that.

Temps in the range you're talking are no problem at all. I only get concerned about trans temp if it's above 200°F, and even then it's OK if it's only for short periods. Above 230-240°F is when I say, "This is definitely too hot."

I have no clue on your plug gap question. Sorry, not my area of expertise.
 

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A "dying cat" screech during a quicklearn is definitely NOT normal, but I have no idea what might cause that.

Temps in the range you're talking are no problem at all. I only get concerned about trans temp if it's above 200°F, and even then it's OK if it's only for short periods. Above 230-240°F is when I say, "This is definitely too hot."

I have no clue on your plug gap question. Sorry, not my area of expertise.
I see, thank you. I thought it would’ve been the clutches grinding against each other, but i’d think if that was the case that it would slip like a bitch, in which it doesn’t. It holds gears very well.

It’s a relatively hard sound to describe, it sounds like a “woooooooooo” sound, kinda high pitched, but not at the same time.

Ah well with the spark question, it’s not mine either. Mine has well have given it a shot.
 

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A "dying cat" screech during a quicklearn is definitely NOT normal, but I have no idea what might cause that.

Temps in the range you're talking are no problem at all. I only get concerned about trans temp if it's above 200°F, and even then it's OK if it's only for short periods. Above 230-240°F is when I say, "This is definitely too hot."

I have no clue on your plug gap question. Sorry, not my area of expertise.
Hello again, just a quick question.

My trans got up to 168°F today, and i noticed that it was slightly overfilled, so i pumped out enough to where it was just over the bottom “HOT” fill hole, inferring that once the fluid reaches 180 or “Operating temp” that it would be where it needed to be, and it seems to be driving a lot better.

Is this a good idea, or did i screw up?
 

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Yes, setting the fluid level properly is a good idea. Sounds like you've done that now. Glad that it seems to be running better.
Hello again, hope all is well!

A lot has happened since i last left off on this, i found out that the trans shop that i bought my new trans off of didn’t install the cooler return filter on right and it was very loose in the trans but still on, so i tightened it down expecting that to solve the slow-shifting issue, but it actually made it worse.

The only thing that comes to mind that’s left to do since i checked over everything else is to preform another quicklearn, which would make sense to do, since the last time i did a QL the return filter was loose and it wasn’t able to get an accurate reading and that might explain why it’s so soft. But, on the plus side, it completely solved the issue i was having with the WOT shifts from 1-2. Before i fixed the filter issue, 1-2 took an unwieldy long amount of time to shift and now it’s perfect (at WOT.)

Also, i’ve noticed a very slight but still there power increase since i did this. Im able to chirp the rear tires on a 8 year old 4.7L with bad plugs now...heh.

Still no CELs or anything, just wanted to see if you had anything else to add on it. Thank you for your time!
 

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Well, a loose spin-on filter is definitely a problem, so glad you got that fixed. I would agree that a quicklearn would be the next step for a shift quality issue.
 

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Well, a loose spin-on filter is definitely a problem, so glad you got that fixed. I would agree that a quicklearn would be the next step for a shift quality issue.
Hello once again.

I performed another quicklearn today, and there is a slight improvement but still a few shifts need some work, but i’m going to wait till after 300 miles with various throttle input shifting and see what it’s like after that. The low speed shifting is definitely improved, but low-med throttle shifting still needs improvement as with high throttle shifting.

Since i take it you’re a (or we’re) a chrysler transmission engineer; what would be too long of a shift, and can these slow shifts cause damage?
Temps on it are great, they don’t reach higher than 150 driving it at 70°F ambient temp. Fluid level looks good too, and the fluid is brand new. I used Oreillys ATF+4 if that makes any amount of difference.
 

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If you watch the time it takes for the engine RPM to drop, I would say anything longer than about 3/4 - 1 second would be undesirable. Note that this is the time for the actual drop in speed that corresponds to the shift handoff within the trans. So, for example, if the engine RPM rises slightly, then holds steady for a bit, then drops, then holds steady again for a bit, and then drops a further amount, I'm only referring to the time it takes for the speed drop in "step 3".
Any brand of ATF+4 is OK, so don't worry about that.
 
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