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I don't know, what your specific problem is- I just have a technical bachelor degree in this field and can explain you mathematical, why a simple and fake CAI does nothing else, than produce a louder intake noise. but that's it.
I don't care, what hobby you have. if you think it looks better- fine- but don't tell anybody, a CAI on a normal vehicle does anything to increase power. It is simply not true.
I don't have to hide behind my keyboard- I would tell you exactly this in your face. Trust me- I don't have to hide behind nothing.
but believe the guy behind the Autozone counter- he knows what he's talking about.


Get your CAI tuned truck on a dyno- and make sure, you have enough tissue handy to dry your tears, when reality check happens. It is thousand times already proven, that with a CAI available in stores, the engines loosing power. Loud does not equal power.
And I can even tell you, why:


first of all- the emission control system eliminates everything, you try. means, without very expensive PCM modifications ( no, I'm not talking about a diablo chip), you can do, what ever you want- the engine will loose power with everything you do. That's the reason, why they write on the box: CAN produce up to x amount more hp. Does not mean it does, which is in 100% of the claims not the case. Proven often enough.
There is a air intake temperature sensor, a maf sensor, a map sensor, a egt sensor, a ebp sensor, just to name a few.
This means, they measure all values and adjust the engine performance accordingly. IF you are able to install a real CAI, which includes the piping completely out of the engine compartment and away from radiator, radiator fan and other heat- distributing parts, you might be able to get cooler air in the intake- but it's not even worth the math to figure out the temperature difference. and all what happens is the same, like the difference when you drive in summer or winter. the air temperature, air mass and pressure in the intake is measured by the sensors, the pcm estimates the mix and injects accordingly the fuel. with other words- you loose power and the engine needs more fuel. that's it. really. and all happens in a range, where you can not even tell- except, in your imagination. Go on a dyno and try it out, if you don't believe me.
If you don't adjust the programming to the system, there is zero effect. period.
And we are not talking about $500 chip tuning, we are talking about complete new programming for the PCM, like for example ABT in Germany does for VW and Audi, where you get another, tuned PCM in exchange, which gives you ~15 hp for $2000.00. ABT has multible tuning stages available- the top stage includes intake, exhaust system, head overhaul, pistons, bearings, turbo, real CAI, PCM modifications and some more small stuff, pulling out of a original 150hp 4-cylinder turbo up to 450hp and 500Nm for ~20000. If you want to have it installed, they charge $10000 extra, or you have to do it by your self.
The next problem is, that you are not really getting more air in it, which would be important for the self-charging effect with RAM- air. If you even know what RAM air effect is. Also, the truck will never be as fast, as the RAM air effect takes place. if, then you're far out of legal speed limits.
What you would have to do is modify the valve train with cam shaft timing, to open the valves quicker and longer and also close them quicker, to prevent the valve either hitting the piston or getting burned off, because of the heat of the exhaust gas.
when you've don this, you need to modify the headers ,that you have all cylinders in equal length and the length to the collector needs to be at the certain spot, where the exhaust flow of one cylinder can create a vacuum effect for the next cylinder to basically pull the exhaust gas and speed the gas exchange up. once you are there, you need to estimate the diameter of the exhaust pipe, not to create a too high backpressure, which needs to be programmed differently into the PCM, because the original value will create a shut down of the engine.
to reach this point, you need to install a high flow catalytic converter, which will create emission problems in states, where the emission is tested.
but regardless- once you are there, you need to figure the exact gas exchange speed in any rpm range in combination with load and again rewrite the pcm to the new values. The most important thing is: if you open the intake side, you have to open the exhaust side- what goes in, has to be able to get out in the same way, or all your money is down the drain.
When you're there, then you can take the whole engine apart and replace all moving parts against high quality parts, which are able to take the increased pressure and load, or your engine will fall apart very soon.
to make it short- this is what racing teams do and we are talking about a high 7-figure range, just to develop the software and mechanical system to reach the target.
This was the very core explanation and not even 1% of the actual work and money you have to invest to see a real difference on a dyno.
But I assume, you are more the Autozone tuner (or buy the same crap just more expensive in online tuning stores).


If you want to have it mathematically confirmed, I recommend, you contact a real tuner, he will be able to help you- but not for free.
I could do it too, but first you would have to send a mid- 5-figure amount to my bank account. that's what my expertise is worth.
Most people just buy the stuff drive-ready and brag at the gas station with it. or in forums. There are only a hand full here, where I know, that they know, what they are talking about. you are not one of them. sorry. And just because you watch gear heads does not make you an expert. See it this way: Automakers investing hundreds of millions of $$ and employing some very smart people with high salary to develop an engine. And then, there is chefred112 and finds out, that all he has to do, is to install a cold air intake and the engine is as powerful as the one in a Ferrari.
Btw- if you haven't noticed - if you really know something about engines and look at the intake and intake filter box of your RAM, Charger or Challenger- you will find out- it is already something like a Cold Air Intake. with other words- you make something great worse. But yeah- I know, you figured it all out. wonder, why you're not already the chief development engineer with a manufacturer, smarty.


Bless your heart and have a nice day.
Based on your mid 5-figure request for your time, the above was about a $1k rant! Thank you
 

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this moron like's to help people in need...I didn't hesitate when a fellow ram bro broke down out of town to help him limp home...then gather people to help tear down a motor without asking for anything in return...



or have people come to my house so i can teach them how to do cam swaps, yup, this moron...





this moron didn't hesitate also when someone needed help changing his rear-end..



a bunch or morons getting together...how moronic...




more morons getting dynos done...what a waste of time don't you think?



Now i am done wasting my time with you... gonna go visit my Army vet son (2 tours in Iraq) and enjoy my grandkids... enjoy your life as I will with mine...with other morons like me...
 

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I don't know, what your specific problem is- I just have a technical bachelor degree in this field and can explain you mathematical, why a simple and fake CAI does nothing else, than produce a louder intake noise. but that's it.
I don't care, what hobby you have. if you think it looks better- fine- but don't tell anybody, a CAI on a normal vehicle does anything to increase power. It is simply not true.
I don't have to hide behind my keyboard- I would tell you exactly this in your face. Trust me- I don't have to hide behind nothing.
but believe the guy behind the Autozone counter- he knows what he's talking about.


Get your CAI tuned truck on a dyno- and make sure, you have enough tissue handy to dry your tears, when reality check happens. It is thousand times already proven, that with a CAI available in stores, the engines loosing power. Loud does not equal power.
And I can even tell you, why:


first of all- the emission control system eliminates everything, you try. means, without very expensive PCM modifications ( no, I'm not talking about a diablo chip), you can do, what ever you want- the engine will loose power with everything you do. That's the reason, why they write on the box: CAN produce up to x amount more hp. Does not mean it does, which is in 100% of the claims not the case. Proven often enough.
There is a air intake temperature sensor, a maf sensor, a map sensor, a egt sensor, a ebp sensor, just to name a few.
This means, they measure all values and adjust the engine performance accordingly. IF you are able to install a real CAI, which includes the piping completely out of the engine compartment and away from radiator, radiator fan and other heat- distributing parts, you might be able to get cooler air in the intake- but it's not even worth the math to figure out the temperature difference. and all what happens is the same, like the difference when you drive in summer or winter. the air temperature, air mass and pressure in the intake is measured by the sensors, the pcm estimates the mix and injects accordingly the fuel. with other words- you loose power and the engine needs more fuel. that's it. really. and all happens in a range, where you can not even tell- except, in your imagination. Go on a dyno and try it out, if you don't believe me.
If you don't adjust the programming to the system, there is zero effect. period.
And we are not talking about $500 chip tuning, we are talking about complete new programming for the PCM, like for example ABT in Germany does for VW and Audi, where you get another, tuned PCM in exchange, which gives you ~15 hp for $2000.00. ABT has multible tuning stages available- the top stage includes intake, exhaust system, head overhaul, pistons, bearings, turbo, real CAI, PCM modifications and some more small stuff, pulling out of a original 150hp 4-cylinder turbo up to 450hp and 500Nm for ~20000. If you want to have it installed, they charge $10000 extra, or you have to do it by your self.
The next problem is, that you are not really getting more air in it, which would be important for the self-charging effect with RAM- air. If you even know what RAM air effect is. Also, the truck will never be as fast, as the RAM air effect takes place. if, then you're far out of legal speed limits.
What you would have to do is modify the valve train with cam shaft timing, to open the valves quicker and longer and also close them quicker, to prevent the valve either hitting the piston or getting burned off, because of the heat of the exhaust gas.
when you've don this, you need to modify the headers ,that you have all cylinders in equal length and the length to the collector needs to be at the certain spot, where the exhaust flow of one cylinder can create a vacuum effect for the next cylinder to basically pull the exhaust gas and speed the gas exchange up. once you are there, you need to estimate the diameter of the exhaust pipe, not to create a too high backpressure, which needs to be programmed differently into the PCM, because the original value will create a shut down of the engine.
to reach this point, you need to install a high flow catalytic converter, which will create emission problems in states, where the emission is tested.
but regardless- once you are there, you need to figure the exact gas exchange speed in any rpm range in combination with load and again rewrite the pcm to the new values. The most important thing is: if you open the intake side, you have to open the exhaust side- what goes in, has to be able to get out in the same way, or all your money is down the drain.
When you're there, then you can take the whole engine apart and replace all moving parts against high quality parts, which are able to take the increased pressure and load, or your engine will fall apart very soon.
to make it short- this is what racing teams do and we are talking about a high 7-figure range, just to develop the software and mechanical system to reach the target.
This was the very core explanation and not even 1% of the actual work and money you have to invest to see a real difference on a dyno.
But I assume, you are more the Autozone tuner (or buy the same crap just more expensive in online tuning stores).


If you want to have it mathematically confirmed, I recommend, you contact a real tuner, he will be able to help you- but not for free.
I could do it too, but first you would have to send a mid- 5-figure amount to my bank account. that's what my expertise is worth.
Most people just buy the stuff drive-ready and brag at the gas station with it. or in forums. There are only a hand full here, where I know, that they know, what they are talking about. you are not one of them. sorry. And just because you watch gear heads does not make you an expert. See it this way: Automakers investing hundreds of millions of $$ and employing some very smart people with high salary to develop an engine. And then, there is chefred112 and finds out, that all he has to do, is to install a cold air intake and the engine is as powerful as the one in a Ferrari.
Btw- if you haven't noticed - if you really know something about engines and look at the intake and intake filter box of your RAM, Charger or Challenger- you will find out- it is already something like a Cold Air Intake. with other words- you make something great worse. But yeah- I know, you figured it all out. wonder, why you're not already the chief development engineer with a manufacturer, smarty.


Bless your heart and have a nice day.
Normally I agree with you but this simply is not true. It is NOWHERE near as hard to fully alter the fuel and timing tables of US made cars PCMs as euro ones. I HAVE done the exact process that you have outlined above and it's really not to terribly hard to do with access to the internet these days......

Yeah if you have a totally stock engine a CAI is a waste of time since the stock tube is ALREADY perfectly tuned in terms of laminar flow and resonance length for the stock cams/head/valve timing and honestly you would be better off just advancing the timing via the computer in that case. Once you start changing the valve events and heads/cam/compression then you will actually need to recalculate the intake tube flow and resonance if max NA power is the goal. Most of the time these days people just go to forced induction to eliminate the need to resonance tune the intake side, exhaust tuning is quite simple too. Just make sure the pipes are tuned to allow reach cylinder to reach the collector at the same exhaust gas velocity and temperature and you will have great flow and cross scavenging.

In an NA car you just don't want the header primary tubes sized so large the exhaust velocity slows down but IDEALY you would want zero backpressure and maximum exhaust velocity in a perfect system but that would literally require a pipe that can change diameter and length VS rpm/exhaust gas volume. Basically would require "adjustable runners" similar to modern intakes but that makes no sense with you can just run forced induction and eliminate most of the need for tuning of that nature. For NA cars the setup is optimized for A. a pre-determined RPM range dependent on the use of the engine or B. Emissions quality requiring the cats to be heated quickly. When you have a turbo vehicle pressure differential is the name of the game so you just want the turbo very close to the exhaust ports for efficiency and after the turbine a HUGE pipe so that pressure can be as low as possible after the turbine AKA lowest resistance.

All those sensors you mentioned (plus an army of extra ones on german/advanced US cars) can be TOLD VIA THE PCM what the goal is. Normal values can be overridden and replaced with new tables and acceptable ranges, great example is my transmission, it NORMALLY only wants to see a certain line pressure since that it what it was designed to use but it can be altered to accept a value 40% higher as "normal" and adjust everything else to meet that value. In this case AND in the case of engines you need to increase competent strength if you expect the system to last as long/reliably as a stock setup. TANSTAAFL comes into play as with anything else, you can't expect an increase without a trade-off of some sort.
 

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Let's not get too heated here fellas, no need for name calling
 

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Na, Thunder- you know me- I have a thick skin, can give and also can take. Have no problem with it and never take anything personally- it's "just" internet. Trust me- in real life, I deal with 1 person, 2 dogs and a cat- everyone else can kiss my behind. For reasons.
The reason, why I said something the first place is, that 99.9% of vehicle owners world wide have stock vehicles and all they know is, how to crank it up. There are some techs, who know a little more, but mostly only, how it has to look like and if not, change it for a new part.
I see repair comments every day and think: why do you even bother to work in a shop? why you don't try something you CAN do? (no offense please- nothing personal)
And then there are the ones, who driving their "tuned" vehicles, lowered or lifted, mag wheels on and all kind of crap. And if you look under the hood, they hooked up the power for the amp to the power supply for the PCM and stuff like that- I'VE SEEN IT ALL.
I've seen people painting their inside of the tail lights- even the headlights with a spray can, because the ones they can get are not dark enough or they have no money for the real ones. I've seen people cutting the springs in half, to lower the vehicle. I've seen people drilling holes in the exhaust and think they have now 20hp more. I've seen people putting those open air filters directly to the throttle and wonder, why their intake system is always clogged up with dust and debris, causing all kind of error codes. I've seen people installing K&N filters and think, those are lifetime - no maintenance filters. I've seen stuff, you would not believe, that someone is so stupid. I've seen repairs from other dealers, where I note the name of the tech, when I find it somewhere, to make sure, if he ever applies here, not to hire him.
I could go on and on.
And then I see exactly those people discussing stuff, where they have absolutely no idea, what it actually does- they just heard something and talking about stuff, they haven't even understood, as someone in the "tuning yard" tried to explain it to them. I had people, wanting the red fuel rail, because the vehicle gets 35 HP and 100 Nm more torque (young customer explained me this, as he's seen on my wall a fuel rail, which I painted red only for display reasons).
And I know Striker does this somewhat semi-professional, but show someone a program for a PCM, they have no Idea if it's a software agreement from windows or the fine print in their cell phone plan. Most of them don't even know, what sensors are in the vehicle or how to get into the PCM the first place- never the less- they can't even tell you, what a PCM is.
And then they sit there ,buying stuff in an online tuning store, installing it with a $25.99 Stanley tool box kit, leaving the half of the stuff off, because they think it's optional mounting supply and then come to the shop, asking, why the check engine light is on and simply just to turn it off.
THAT'S REALITY.
And that's the reason, why I can't hold myself sometimes to leave a sarcastic comment.
When this immediately causes some "pro's" to get their feelings hurt and assuming, you are a stupid moron who has no clue, what he's talking about- then I answer. And I try to answer in a way, that people, who have no Idea are able to understand- I keep it simple with explanations and try not to get too technical. Or it's wasted, because it feels like your doctor explains something and you have no clue, what he's talking about with all those latin words, and just because you don't want to look stupid, you nod your head, instead of nailing him to explain all that in understandable English.
And I have no problem with it- because I usually only talk about stuff I know about. And If I don't, I admit it- unlike some other specialists here.


But I leave it there- does not mean, that my filter lets the one or the other sarcastic comment through every once in a while.


Have a nice day, y'all.
 
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