DODGE RAM FORUM banner

1 - 20 of 57 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone I am new here and was really hoping someone could tell me what the heck is going on. I went to a mechanic due to truck shaking and not running right. He does a check and tells me it is a blown head gasket. I told him I didn't really think that was the issue so I take engine to heads pull them off and suprise suprise head gaskets are fine but I already had the gasket kit so why not. Turns out I had a broken valve spring causing a misfire. Replace that then put everything back on in order and torque it to spec. Engine starts rough and you have to give it has to get it going. It can't barely idle by itself without gas and shakes like a roller coaster. Checked double checked and triple checked connections and ignition coils. Have liquid coming out of tail pipes. Unburned fuel?? Anything will help thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
322 Posts
Liquid from tail pipe. check coolant in the rad for oil, check oil for coolant. oil will be milky if coolant is in it. If either are contaminated head gasket wasn't done properly. Did your mechanic check the cam / lifters while he had the heads off?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Yea man if fluid is coming from tail pipe you probably don't have a good seal on that gasket also I would double check the timing you may have put something back on not aligned properly. Make sure everything lines up at tdc. Also try performing a cylinder pressure check if a valve isn't seated properly you'll know it'll be much lower then other cylinders.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
1. you have not solved your orig problem
2. Did you have moisture coming out of your tailpipe before?How much, put your hand into the exhaust flow and see what condenses on your hand and smell it. Is it sticky? if so its antifreeze.
3. Did your your mechanic check for codes?

I would pause for a moment and remove the valve covers and check the pushrods. the are easy to put in wrong and you will drop a cylinder.
If thats fine do a compression or leak down check.

Good luck, hope its something simple.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Ok I will check that and how about why the engine wont run. You have to pump the gas to get it started and it idles like crap. It bounces between 200-500 rpm and won't stay running while driving without constant throttle. And I tried to drive it around to pop a code and it overheated in like 10 minutes but just in time for engine light to come on. Radiator cap wasn't even warm 20 minutes later?? As for how the push rods go is there any diagram on how those go? I know I made sure they were all seated properly but maybe not in the right hole. Pretty positive liquid coming out of pipes is unburned fuel and I'm kind of hoping it is because I definitely don't want to take heads off again but I'll post an update later today, thanks for yalls help so far.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,058 Posts
Guess on my part but did the head gaskets go on correctly? Are they the right head gaskets? The overheating issue makes me question the installation. Another thought, thermostat installed properly.

I suppose by random chance you could have a water pump problem at the same time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
There wasn't really a wrong way to put them on if you put one on the wrong side it wouldn't line up and could be thermostat, bought a new one and installed it. Is there certain things you are supposed to do when putting a new one on?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,537 Posts
The head gaskets are labeled L for left the driver side and R for right the passenger side and are not interchangeable you may have them swapped. If this is the case get new head gaskets and do not reuse the old....

P.S I installed them reversed sides when I did my heads the first time but luckily when I went to refill with coolant they leaked and I immediately knew I had a problem lesson learned...

And also if you installed any of the pushrods incorrectly and have driven the truck or ran the engine for any amount of time you most likely have a bent valve or a broken valve guide and that whole motor is most likely toast.... Be ready for a rebuild I hate to be a negative nancy but once again I did the exact same thing to my motor and destroyed it. Luckily my $3k BV heads were repairable and I ordered an all forged rotating assembly from Stu at Inertia Motorsports and built a 400 stroker out of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
322 Posts
like rupert said, check tail pipe for coolant. If no coolant in exhaust check oil filler cap for milky substance indication of coolant oil in. Both are indications of head gasket issue. Then pull heads check push rods longest are exhaust, shorter are intake and not interchangeable. If rods are mixed up could be very bad, well not could be very very likely bad. Please let us know what you did so the folks on here can narrow down the problem. Best of luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
322 Posts
forgot to mention there is a test kit you can get at napa that will test coolant and indicate if head gasket is the issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,537 Posts
Before you crank that motor drain all the oil out of it and look for metal chunks and look for coolant.... if u do find metal do not refill or try to run the motor... Pull the heads and look at them very closely for damage then look at every piston. You may need a new motor... if you find metal just depends on if the crappy stock pistons held up or not but I doubt it. if you find no metal or see lots of coolant pull the heads and replace the gaskets and replace the head bolts look into ARP head studs expensive but worth it. if you do find metal post some pics and we can help you figure out what it might be

I wouldn't even try to start the motor to do a coolant test I wouldn't risk it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,537 Posts
Also if any part of that broken valve spring made its way through the motor or having that valve smacking the piston could have caused some other issues like a broken valve guide did you inspect the heads when you pulled them? Did the pistons look fine no valve scoring?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
322 Posts
Also if any part of that broken valve spring made its way through the motor or having that valve smacking the piston could have caused some other issues like a broken valve guide did you inspect the heads when you pulled them? Did the pistons look fine no valve scoring?
Good call, forgot about having to run the engine to properly do the test.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Or order a leak down tester or get one off the tool truck. This will tell you all sorts of information on the internal health of the engine. It uses compressed air so therefore you don't need to crank the engine but you will need access to air via compressor, good luck.

A leak down tester not to be confused with a compression tester too separate tools/methods and diagnostics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,188 Posts
I agree you have not corrected the original issue

pull all the sparl plugs and inspect them, then do a compression test to check that FIRST!

this will give you an idea of the condition of the engine

when you had the heads off you said you found a broken valve spring?
did you head the heads rebuilt or just throw a new spring in it?

having the heads off and finding a broken spring and not rebuilding both! heads would be your first mistake!

as far as the overheating...

I'll bet you have an air pocket in the cooling system, I always drill a 1/8" hole in the thermostat to let air pockets escape, if there is a air pocket under the thermostat, the stat can not sense the coolant temp and will not open
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Your getting lots of advise and none of its bad.
I suggest you stop for a minute, don't run the car anymore and think about a logical order to proceed:
liquid from tailpipe. well smell it! if its gas , or antifreeze you will know.
loosen the plug above t-stat and see what comes out. AIR? you need to bleed/fill the system , AFTER you figure out what going on with the misfire. You gonna have to anyway cause your going to Remove the tstat I just want you to look now so you know. So remove outlet hose( two bolts/ 3 min!) and look at the tstat in place: is it pointing at you? Not sure? look at a picture online and not the pellet part and spring goes towards the engine the pointy part with the arch metal goes towards YOU. Or as we used to say in the army, "front towards enemy" Can you see the weep hole, it should be at the 12 o'clock position. get that straight.
Pull the valve covers, it free!
with a mirror, ( one of them cheap dental mirrors works well as its small enough to fit around the push rods and seats, and still see) check each push rod. You probably have one of them cockeyed.
Look down into the engine where the lifters are and see( with a good flashlight) if they are seated properly. now follow each one out to the rocker arm. here's what happens a lot, the pushrod isn't seated into the little cup on the rocker arm or lifter, its off and therefore the valve isn't opening correctly or not at all. If you find a bent pushrod, remove the rockers and pull them all. I'd just plan on replacing them as a set a that point, but you can roll them on a glass tabletop and see if anymore are bent. Because you have not mentioned any clank clank noises I am hopeful you will have found the problem by now. Once your sure you have all the rods in the right places, pull all the spark plugs and see what they look like. follow the "evidence", if any. ( like if you find a crushed electrode, you have foreign metal damage. if they are ok, next roll the engine over by hand. use a socket and 1/2 Inch Breaker bar on the crank bolt. clockwise as you look at it. watch the pushrods work. Most folks I know do this step anytime we mess with the valve train. all ok? then you can put one spark plug back in each cylinder and do a compression test, but if you found an corrected a problem with the rods...put all the plugs back in and fire it up, with the valve covers off. just long enough to see if it runs.
None of the above will cost you anything but time and it's already broke so go for it.

Please elaborate on what was found broken which valve spring) and what else was checked: Piston top, cylinder, the valve itself ( might be bent), , and by whom? did your mechanic do some and you did some ? Or did you do it all?
hang in there, this should get you started.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,834 Posts
You need to prep aluminum heads before putting them back on an iron block......on a side now we had an 04 with this exact problem down to the letter and we ended up having to pull the whole block and rebuild it. It's a 392 stroker now lol!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
322 Posts
any updates?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
Water is a product of the combustion process. It's common to see water leaving the exhaust.

Gasoline is basically a huge chain of carbon and hydrogen. All the Hydrogen reacts with the oxygen to make water. Carbon reacts with air to make CO2 and or CO. Pretty much half the gas turns into water.

I think his problem resides somewhere else.

k I will check that and how about why the engine wont run. You have to pump the gas to get it started and it idles like crap. It bounces between 200-500 rpm and won't stay running while driving without constant throttle. And I tried to drive it around to pop a code and it overheated in like 10 minutes but just in time for engine light to come on. Radiator cap wasn't even warm 20 minutes later??
If it sounds anything like this, the problem I was having a few weeks ago when I swapped my motor.
https://vimeo.com/153191590
Check throttle body connections. Make sure you add dielectric grease and push it in all the way. It was so hard to push the connector in, I thought it was on all the way. The connector has to fit completely over the male connector on the throttle body. The connectors get warped over time. While you're at it, give the throttle body a good clean.

You have a Gen III like me, be careful with high temperatures, your valve seats may come loose from aluminum heads and get crushed up and you'll lose a cylinder. This is a common problem with 3rd gens. Sometimes they come loose overtime from heat cycling and you lose a cylinder without knowing it, eventually it will keep happening until your engine will not run at all because you don't have anymore cylinders. As for your overheating, swap the thermostat, they're cheap. It's easy to do. I can almost bet this is the cause since it happened to me too. It seems the previous owner did little to next to no maintenance on the engine. I notice you live in Texas, you might not even need a thermostat as long as you never plan on making big road trips across the country.

If you want to solve the valve seat problem for prevention, you'll need to take cylinder heads to a machine shop where they will properly install the valve seats.

It's very frustrating, I know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Ok everyone I would like to thank all of y'all for the help, it's been a long week of checking all the things y'all I have said, everything was put together right but I rushed the job and just wanted it done. While replacing gaskets and spring I did not get the heads inspected and ended up doing a compression test and have barely any compression in the driver side head, so guess who gets to take it apart and order all new gaskets. What I don't understand is if we didn't touch timing or any of the other valves how could it of gotten so much worse?
 
1 - 20 of 57 Posts
Top