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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This week has been fun...

Hurricane Dorian has me running for TN when, in south Georgia, my vehicle loses power and the check engine light starts flashing. Next exit has an Advanced Auto Parts and the code calls out "Cylinder 5 Misfire - P0305". Not like I have a whole truck full of impatient evacuees and another 500 miles to go, right?

I throw a coil at the problem in the AAP parking lot and all seems great at low speed. Get over 60 mph and put the pedal down and it starts to struggle, whole truck shakes and the check engine light does its dance. I limp on 7-cylinders to west TN and drop it off at Chrysler after Labor Day.

The fantastic mechanics tell me there is "no issue" and the code is "just an old stored code". One sassy sarcastic mechanic ride-a-long later he knows something is very not right. Throws a coil, plugs, injector at the problem, nada. Thanks to you fine people on the interweb, there is a wonderful write-up about the bearing on the lifter failing and eating the cam lobe. Happens for vehicles with 100k+ miles. Happens sooner if you drive like a teenager. Next day, the news. Cam and lifter are chewed up. Valve seat decided to join in on the fun. MOPAR isn't known for their support of local businesses so they won't send the head out to be machined locally, or at all. They want a brand new head, all new valves, springs, cam and lifters to the tune of $6100. Thank you hurricane dorian! If I was home this would be a 5-7 days of work with sending the head out and significantly less $$$, but not for me.

So the head hancho states that for $2k more he will just replace the engine. This avoids having the same issue on the opposite head creep up on me and gives me an overall motor warranty of 36mo/unlimited miles (or 100k miles, I forget which). So there we have it, $8100, a new motor and every family member is getting a card for Christmas this year while I start a GoFundMe for my truck (kidding).

But I didn't come here to tell stories, well, not entirely. I was trying to find some info on the core charge for a new 5.7L. I was thinking of buying my motor back and rebuilding the top and bottom. Either for sale or spare or for performance. So what is the core charge on the 5.7L running these days? Since it should be a fixed rate from MOPAR I want to have some knowledge up front in case the dealership tries to screw me.
 

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2014 8 Speed Hemi 3.92
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For 8 grand it better have a 392 SRT in it or at least an upgraded cam/headers.

Cores go for ~ $750 long, short $500

Sorry for your loss, how many hours of idle time and what oil/filter was used/intervals for our data tracking?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Sure, how can I get the idle time value? Is it stored in a module or am I just approximating?

Oil was done 6k +/- 500 miles with 5W-20 synthetic, Mopar brand 899 oil filter. When the indicator went off, I'd change it within 2-3 days of local driving.

Oil was always changed at the dealership from 30k - 115k since I am the second owner. Before that, who knows.
 

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Do some research and you will find this is a pretty typical problem with the Hemi. Chevy 5.3 seems to have the same issue. What oil and filter does not seem to have anything to do with it. Vehicles that idle a lot seem to have the problem much more prevalent. But is not the only cause or the only ones having the issue. I found a really good forum on this where a cam and lifter was sent into an "expert" for evaluation. The metal hardness was good and no heating issue. The result from the expert was lack of proper lubrication. (that is a pretty broad statement and I don't want to go into the entire explanation).
 

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I am not sure if Ram ForumZ will allow this or not, but here is the link to where the damaged cam and lifter were analyzed:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I am not sure if Ram ForumZ will allow this or not, but here is the link to where the damaged cam and lifter were analyzed:
That's a good read. Have people had better luck with a different oil?
 

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That's a good read. Have people had better luck with a different oil?
I have spoken with Brian from BND auto. He used to work for a major oil company and now blends his own oil. It is called Quantum Blue. That is what I am now using. It is not cheap but hopefully I will avoid the same issue you had. His oil uses better detergents and is 7.5W-23 instead of 5W-20. He can make their viscosity exact. You can look up his website and email him. A couple days after the email, he called me and we talked for almost an hour.
BTW, I do not represent in any way shape or forum BND auto, just a user of his product.
 

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I have spoken with Brian from BND auto. He used to work for a major oil company and now blends his own oil. It is called Quantum Blue. That is what I am now using. It is not cheap but hopefully I will avoid the same issue you had. His oil uses better detergents and is 7.5W-23 instead of 5W-20. He can make their viscosity exact. You can look up his website and email him. A couple days after the email, he called me and we talked for almost an hour.
BTW, I do not represent in any way shape or forum BND auto, just a user of his product.
I ended up spending way more time reading that comment thread you linked to in comment #5 than any sane person should ever subject themselves to. Nothing, in my experience of online vehicle forums, can turn a comment thread into a crap festival quicker than a lubricant discussion.

Anyway, a couple of observations worth mentioning struck me right away:

The first is that the forum member whose cam and lifters were sent for the "assay" (CE9311) pretty much ended up feeling that the whole thing was a kind of kabuki theater which only purported to objectively analyze the causes of the failure, whereas, he felt, the true nature of the "assay" was to act as a choreographed confirmation for the supposed efficacy of the (expensive boutique "Quantum Blue") lubricant that BND Auto is selling, and to support Brian's (BND's head honcho) narrative that the whole cause of the cam/lifter failures can be atributed to lubricant failure. A failure that BND claims their Quantum Blue lubricant will absolutely prevent, apparently.
Several other participants in that thread were of the same skeptical frame of mind also, clearly expressing their conviction that the claims made by BND for their lubricant were simply not supported by any reliable objective data and that Brian's spiel was basically sophisticated flimflammery.

The second observation is that the Quantum Blue lubricant does not meet any of required industry standards suggested for lubricants by FCA, the Hemi engine manufacturer.
Brian at BND Auto is perfectly comfortable not only admitting this, but actually kind of boasting about it, since it is his position that in order to meet those standards (like API standards, or FCA's own in-house MS Standards) he would have to "bring down" the quality of his lubricant by removing certain additive levels in order to comply with those standard's requirements for additive maximums in order to prevent catalytic converter damage among other issues.
Without getting off into the technical weeds as to Brian's reasoning for his "I'd have to make my oil worse to gain compliance" narrative, anyone planning to purchase and use BND's lubricants might want to consider what effect using a lubricant that does NOT meet any of the minimum standards suggested by the vehicle manufacturer could have on any subsequent warranty claims.

There are who-knows-how-many "boutique" high-dollar oils on the market, and Quantum Blue is clearly another one.
I have yet to see or even hear of a single scientific peer-reviewed study with empirical data suggesting that any of those lubricants produce a measurable increase in engine durability or service life, or a reduction in oil-related failures, by comparison with the use of ordinary off-the-shelf brand name lubricants which meet manufacturers' recommendations. Assuming oil change intervals and etc which also comply with recommendations of course.
Not one single study.
Not ever.

That said, if spending extra money provides a sense of comfort, then hey, it's not my wallet, so I say go for it.
 

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That said, if spending extra money provides a sense of comfort, then hey, it's not my wallet, so I say go for it.
OK. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with you. But this forum is about the cam/lifter failures on the Hemi engine. I have yet to see you add anything to what is the actual problem causing this issue.
 

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The second observation is that the Quantum Blue lubricant does not meet any of required industry standards suggested for lubricants by FCA, the Hemi engine manufacturer.

That said, if spending extra money provides a sense of comfort, then hey, it's not my wallet, so I say go for it.
Why do you try to come here and falsely state "lubricant does not meet any of required industry standards suggested for lubricants by FCA, the Hemi engine manufacturer"? His oil clearly states it meets all industry standards for vehicles requireing SN rated oil. Also how do you know it doesn't meet the standard for FCA. Just because it hasn't been Certified by FCA does not mean it doesn't meet the standard. Many members here use Mobile 1, yet it also has not been Certified by FCA.
You also like to throw in words like "Boutique", using the word as an insult. I wonder what your real agenda is.
I am not here to promote or stand up for BND auto, just passing information on, whether correct or not, who knows? The internet is full of information, some good, some bad, we all need to pick our poison.
 

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We know the lifters are the culprits as they changed suppliers in late 2015.

If you want to run a bandaid $12/qt oil like redline etc. to help as a sleep aid it’s your money and decision.
 

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I have yet to see you add anything to what is the actual problem causing this issue.
What I do know is that some small percentage of Hemis suffer cam and lifter failure. By far and away most of them do not. I have not "added anything to what is the actual problem causing this issue" because I don't know what it causing the issue. Neither do you.
The fact that I do not know the exact cause does not invalidate my observation, which you ignore, that there is not one single scientific peer-reviewed study, anywhere, showing increased engine lifespans from the use of ANY of the many fancy-shmancy (since you don't like the word "boutique") lubricants currently on the market.
His oil clearly states it meets all industry standards for vehicles requireing SN rated oil. Also how do you know it doesn't meet the standard for FCA. Just because it hasn't been Certified by FCA does not mean it doesn't meet the standard.
According to Brian's own words deep in the comment thread which is linked here (comment #5), his lubricant absolutely does not meet the standards because, by his own admission, in order to meet those standards he would have to reduce the levels of certain additives he's using in order to get the parts per million levels down to where they don't exceed the maximum levels that those standards set. Those maximum levels are there to ensure excessive additive levels don't damage catalytic converters etc. All that information is contained in the comment thread link that YOU provided. Perhaps you have not read it carefully enough. Do feel free to go back and check.
I wonder what your real agenda is.
That's easy. I support and campaign whenever I can for the primacy of empiricism and the scientific method of objective analysis with peer reviews when it comes to technical problems.
If you can provide a source for any studies using intellectually respectable methods and reviews , anywhere, which support the narrative Brian and BND Auto is advancing for the efficacy of the lubricant he's selling, or for the efficacy of any chi-chi and hugely expensive lubricants currently available, please provide it.
Otherwise, meh.
 

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We know the lifters are the culprits as they changed suppliers in late 2015.

If you want to run a bandaid $12/qt oil like redline etc. to help as a sleep aid it’s your money and decision.
Really? You can do a search on RamForumZ and find that 2015 and 2016 have still had the problem.
People throw away a lot more money than buying expensive oil, so I will take that comment with a grain of salt.
 

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We know the lifters are the culprits as they changed suppliers in late 2015.

If you want to run a bandaid $12/qt oil like redline etc. to help as a sleep aid it’s your money and decision.
Below is what I found here on RamForumZ. I only listed 3 2015s, but on the forum someone was keeping track and listed 4 2015s with the failure. It is 42 pages long,

"Has anyone had bad lifter/scored cam problem again after repair? My 2015 Ram with around 23,500 miles is at the dealer now getting the cam and lifters replaced. I have the lifetime warranty but I'm more than displeased to search around and find out how widespread the problem seems."

"You can add my previous truck a 2015 Laramie to the list. 32K miles and needs a new cam and lifters. I switched it from the PYB at 10K miles to 5W20 Ultra platinum and changed it twice before selling it to my buddy back in April with 22K miles on it. "

"I have a 2015 with the lifter issue at 80K milea. Been waitin four months with ni end in sighf for the parta. All dealers said over 12,000 are on back order. My oil is black so i'm anticipating on valve will be fried along with the cam. "

"Someone referred me to this thread. I haven't read through everything yet, but you may possibly add 2016 to your list. Started having problems just after 100k miles with our 2016 Ram 1500. I wasn't with my bf at the shop, but the mechanic said he needed a new engine. He just went in for a misfire on #5. I told him to get a second opinion before shelling out 7k for a new engine. But I did see something about a lifter when searching. "
 

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According to Brian's own words deep in the comment thread which is linked here (comment #5), his lubricant absolutely does not meet the standards because, by his own admission, in order to meet those standards he would have to reduce the levels of certain additives he's using in order to get the parts per million levels down to where they don't exceed the maximum levels that those standards set. Those maximum levels are there to ensure excessive additive levels don't damage catalytic converters etc. All that information is contained in the comment thread link that YOU provided. Perhaps you have not read it carefully enough. Do feel free to go back and check.
Then I guess he is lying on ever bottle of oil he sends out. See picture attached.
 

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Then I guess he is lying on ever bottle of oil he sends out. See picture attached.
Nowhere on that label does it say the standards are "met". What it says is that the standards are "exceeded", which is disingenuous doublespeak. It's not lying, but those words are carefully chosen and are misleading.
Words matter, and his choice of the word "exceeds" rather than using the word "meets" is an important bit of flimflammery (what the late, and sometimes great, Justice Antonin Scalia would have immediately dismissed as "jiggerypokery") that seems to have escaped your attention.

Brian, by his own admission in the thread to which YOU provided the link, has not submitted his products for testing and evaluation by any standards authority or agency, because, in his words, he would "have to make his products worse in order to meet those standards"
What he means by this, and again I'm not making any of this up but simply reporting on his own online statements, is that the additive levels in his products exceed the maximum allowable additive levels necessary to meet those standards, so yeah, when in says on the bottle that his products "exceed all the latest API specifications" that is in fact accurate in the sense that his parts per million proportions of several additives are so high that if he were to submit his products for certification, they would certainly fail by reason of those "excessive" amounts of additives.

It seems that you, and no doubt many others, read that sentence which says the lubricant "exceeds all the latest API specifications" and take it to mean that his products are, at least potentially, vastly superior, and that if they were to be submitted for certification they would pass with flying colors. Well, they would not and he's very specific in acknowledging that fact in the comment thread you provided.
And again, there is NO empirically verified evidence that the use of his products, or any other upscale niche-market lubricants, will extend engine life or durability.

It's perfectly clear that you have not read the entirety of the discussion on the forum in your link, or even all the comments made by Brian himself, nor have you taken the time to evaluate the many instances of intelligent and thoughtful pushback that Brian receives in that thread.

I'm not going round and round with you on this anymore. If you want to come back and demonstrate that you have carefully read the entire comment thread to which you linked, and have a willingness to discuss the issue further in that context, then OK.
Otherwise, I'm done.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Mom, Dad, don't fight. :LOL:

The core charge is sitting at $400 right now for me to get the motor back. Great news for me after so much MOPAR overcharging.
 

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Guys....I am old school. I like thicker oil, but not too much in these newer vehicles. I run 5-30 synthetic in my 5.7 in an 09 Laramie. Now I only have 70,000 miles so who knows. But running a certain grade of oil for 1/2 mile per gallon increase in fuel mileage does not make sense to me. But thanks, as I will notice even a slight burp in my cam, now that I know to listen for it.
As soon as my '18 Scat Pack, 392 is off warranty, I may go with something thicker than 0-20. Never even heard of that until now.
I am going to say that any engine over 100,000 needs a thinker oil to make up for the wear, especially in the hotter weather.
 

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2009 Dodge Hemi crewcab Rambox
431,500 . Around 325,000 my MDS went out . While repairing that they replaced cam and lifters under the lifetime power train warranty.
 
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